Playing without watching your hole cards

D.H. · #1 10-05-2004, 05:29 PM

I'm a limit player myself but a friend of mine had the idea of trying to play NL$25 online without watching his hole cards. This would be an experiment to increase your bluffing and player reading skills. Now, I guess this would be -EV over the period you try it but maybe it wouldn't be in the long run if this makes you a better player.

So, a few questions for all the NL players out there:

* Do you think it's possible to play winning poker without watching your hole cards at Party NL$25?

* If not, do you still think it would be a good idea over a short period of time for the purpose of increasing your skills?

* Has anyone tried it or is anyone willing to give it a shot and present their results here?
(Yeah, I'm too much of a coward myself, and too inexperienced at NL to risk my money trying this [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img])

© <font color="blue">D.H.</font>

AncientPC · #2 10-05-2004, 05:44 PM

1) Marginally yes.

2) No, you'll learn the skills eventually by playing the game anyway.

3) Nope.

cornell2005 · #3 10-05-2004, 07:06 PM

absolutly not. your cards matter more in a nl25 game than they do in any other game. its not even close

Sponger15SB · #4 10-05-2004, 07:08 PM

This would be a horrible idea, how many players at $25NL fold? Do you really think you could make all your money by bluffing? not a chance.

AncientPC · #5 10-05-2004, 09:19 PM

Depends on the site, probably wouldn't work on Party. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

D.H. · #6 10-06-2004, 09:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
This would be a horrible idea, how many players at $25NL fold? Do you really think you could make all your money by bluffing? not a chance.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, so your answer to question #1 is obviously 'no'. But the idea of this experiment would not be to try to make as much money as possible during the experiment. So, what about question #2? Would it be a good lesson?

Playing limit (3/6 right now) I know how quickly everything becomes routine. I usually play 4 tables but sometimes I have the TV on beside me and watch a show at the same time. So, to be honest, I don't pay as much attention to individual players as I should. Why? 'cause I don't have to to win my money and then it seems I'm just too lazy to care.

Now, I know that the play won't be 'routine' in the same way when playing NL but I imagine that a lot of you winning players at NL$25 can very well win without paying much attention to individual players. Seems to me that performing an experiment like this would force you to pay more attention (it's the only way to win) and therefore improve your bluffing/player reading skills.

Wayfare · #7 10-06-2004, 10:46 AM

This is one of the worst ideas I have seen on this board. You can do the same thing by downloading hand histories and guessing what they have at each point at the hand.

You also won't dump multiple buy ins bluffing blind. Remember, oftentimes your cards will facilitate a bluff.

GimmeDaWatch · #8 10-06-2004, 11:09 AM

Uhhhh, what they said. In the abstract, it might be a good/fun exercise. In reality, it doesnt even matter half the time on Party 25 if you're making a great bluff or not, b/c the bozo might call you anyhow. Especially after you showdown a couple ludicrous hands when these bluffs are called, youre gonna start being called every time (with good reason). Alot of good bluffing is semi-bluffing (obviously not an option without seeing your cards) and only trying to bluff tightish, thinking players.

samurai · #9 10-06-2004, 12:53 PM

I wouldn't bother trying it at Party NL$25. I reloaded there last week for the bonus and I've been basically nut peddling. I can't even comment on most of the play except to say it leaves me scratching my head.

Just one example, I've seen players in early postion call all-in bets with pocket 4's, when the board is A K 8 suited and they didn't hold one of the suited cards in there hand.

I might be wrong, but at this level your basically playing your cards, not your opponent.

D.H. · #10 10-06-2004, 05:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This is one of the worst ideas I have seen on this board. You can do the same thing by downloading hand histories and guessing what they have at each point at the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's not even remotely the same thing. Reading hand histories doesn't tell you how a person would react to a certain bet from you at a certain time. You don't get any feedback at all in that approach.

[ QUOTE ]
You also won't dump multiple buy ins bluffing blind.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't take it too seriously, I'm not recommending anyone to try it if you're not comfortable with losing the money. I still think it could be a good exercise though if you don't mind throwing away 100 bucks or so.