How pathetic of a river play was this...?

[El Dukie]

Good 15-30 game. 8-handed, I'm in EP. One limper, I raise with Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], two cold-callers (I said it was a good game) including the button, a loose semi-aggressive type, who appears to play big cards and suited cards. BB and limper call.

Flop is Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Beauty. Checked to me, I bet, fold, button raises, BB cold-calls, I 3-bet, both call.

Turn is T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. BB checks, I bet, Button calls, BB folds. At this point, I'm putting button on a heart draw. He's playing like a draw, anyway, though maybe he's got the case Queen with a decent kicker (A, K, or J, maybe. I'd have expected him to raise with QT).

River is 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. I check. He checks. I show my set. He shows AQ. I win. I missed a bet on the river. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] When I put him on a draw that gets there, should my default play (with an otherwise great hand like a set or top two pair) be to check-call or bet out? In addition to the flush, I thought he might bet with a good Queen if I checked (if he put me on a lower pair or AK), but later play revealed that he wasn't that much of a thinker, and my preflop raise and flop 3-bet probably would have kept him from betting anyway. And if he's willing to bet a good Queen, he'd be willing to call with it too. I'd have had to call a raise if I had bet, so that's my rationalization for my weak play, but I'm still not happy about it.

[1800GAMBLER]

Here's a simple one, when first to act on the river after betting the turn only check if you are going to checkfold.

[andyfox]

"When I put him on a draw that gets there, should my default play (with an otherwise great hand like a set or top two pair) be to check-call or bet out?"

Is this a trick question? If I put someone on a draw that got there my default play is to check-fold.

I wouldn't be so upset about the river. Your opponent played it exactly like a heart draw, not like A-Q.

[The Bear]

[ QUOTE ]
Here's a simple one, when first to act on the river after betting the turn only check if you are going to checkfold.

[/ QUOTE ]

EXCELLENT general advice.

[The Bear]

[ QUOTE ]
"When I put him on a draw that gets there, should my default play (with an otherwise great hand like a set or top two pair) be to check-call or bet out?"

Is this a trick question? If I put someone on a draw that got there my default play is to check-fold.

I wouldn't be so upset about the river. Your opponent played it exactly like a heart draw, not like A-Q.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know about that, andy. His play looks exactly like AQ, KQ, or QJ to me.

[andyfox]

In the 15-30 games I've played in, they don't play top pair with good kicker so weakly. But with a flush draw, they'll often raise the flop and check behind on the turn, or, if 3-bet on the flop, just call on the turn.

El Dukie showed his hand. If the guy had just mucked behind, no way I would have thought he had A-Q.

[poolshark]

Definitely bet the river and.

[mike l.]

"When I put him on a draw that gets there, should my default play (with an otherwise great hand like a set or top two pair) be"

in LA never put someone on a draw so definitively that you neglect to value bet the river w/ what is the nuts if they werent on a draw. got that?

[mmcd]

[ QUOTE ]
Here's a simple one, when first to act on the river after betting the turn only check if you are going to checkfold.

[/ QUOTE ]

ugggh

[lil feller]

The only time to check this hand is if the draw misses...let him bluff. Too many hands you can beat that will call you, if you bet out and get raised, time to evaluate your position.