1st Hand, A Q-suited: Who Makes This Call Preflop?

[Desdia72]

after limping from lp, i'm now facing a raise and two cold callers. who bites the bullet and spends the chips?
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PokerStars Game #732452021: Tournament #2852555, Hold'em No Limit - Level I
(10/20) - 2004/09/30 - 12:51:24 (ET)
Table '2852555 1' Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: ie2210 (1500 in chips)
Seat 2: TiltedBrim (1500 in chips)
Seat 3: surfacing09 (1500 in chips)
Seat 4: Jennifer_25 (1500 in chips)
Seat 5: stormyeyesC (1500 in chips)
Seat 6: grahan (1500 in chips)
Seat 7: atomicmom (1500 in chips)
Seat 8: ranncid (1500 in chips)
Seat 9: ReighnStorm (1500 in chips)
TiltedBrim: posts small blind 10
surfacing09: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ReighnStorm [Qh Ah]
Jennifer_25: calls 20
stormyeyesC: calls 20
grahan: folds
atomicmom: folds
ranncid: folds
ReighnStorm: calls 20
ie2210: folds
TiltedBrim: raises 120 to 140
surfacing09: folds
Jennifer_25: calls 120
stormyeyesC: calls 120
ReighnStorm: folds
*** FLOP *** [Td 7s As]
TiltedBrim: checks
Jennifer_25: bets 140
stormyeyesC: calls 140
TiltedBrim: calls 140
*** TURN *** [Td 7s As] [Jc]
TiltedBrim: checks
Jennifer_25: bets 300
stormyeyesC: calls 300
TiltedBrim: calls 300
*** RIVER *** [Td 7s As Jc] [8s]
TiltedBrim: checks
Jennifer_25: checks
stormyeyesC: bets 240
TiltedBrim: folds
Jennifer_25: calls 240
*** SHOW DOWN ***
stormyeyesC: shows [9h Qs] (a straight, Eight to Queen)
TiltedBrim said, "KK"
Jennifer_25: shows [Ac Ts] (two pair, Aces and Tens)
stormyeyesC collected 2260 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2260 | Rake 0
Board [Td 7s As Jc 8s]
Seat 1: ie2210 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: TiltedBrim (small blind) folded on the River
Seat 3: surfacing09 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: Jennifer_25 showed [Ac Ts] and lost with two pair, Aces and Tens
Seat 5: stormyeyesC showed [9h Qs] and won (2260) with a straight, Eight to
Queen
Seat 6: grahan folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: atomicmom folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: ranncid folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: ReighnStorm folded before Flop

[nuclear500]

Well your first huge problem was limping with the suited AQ in late position. The Kings may have reraised it regardless of your action, putting you on a late position steal when everyone limped, the Q9 would have never seen it and the AT may or may not have called.

[Desdia72]

[ QUOTE ]
Well your first huge problem was limping with the suited AQ in late position. The Kings may have reraised it regardless of your action, putting you on a late position steal when everyone limped, the Q9 would have never seen it and the AT may or may not have called.

[/ QUOTE ]

so in other words, i end up losing more money by raising. i feel A Q is a good hand to have in lp, even better when it's suited; however, against a field of multiple limpers, i felt it was best to limp with about two others to act. obviously, the raise and two cold calls let me know where i stood.

[SmileyEH]

raise preflop in that position, and in low buy in NL tourneys its not even close.

EP in higher buyins a limp is best in my opinion. Raising defines your hand and lets you know where you stand (seeing a late position raise and a couple callers does NOT).

-SmileyEH

[poboy]

Only a true fish makes this call that early in the tourny. As for raising this pf, that is the worst advice I've ever seen on this board. Why anyone would want to risk a good portion of their stack with a hand like AQ this early is beyond me.

[SmileyEH]

Could you explain why raising AQs in LP with two limpers to you is the "worst advice ever seen on this board"?

-SmileyEH

[codewarrior]

What it the buy-in?

[poboy]

Ok. Let's try it your way. Hero raises to let's say T120, as you said you're trying to thin the field anything less won't do this. Player holding KK either re-raises(if he's smart) or flat calls hoping to trap the other two limpers. If he raises what do you do now? Do you continue on? Do you invest more of your stack with a hand that is likely to be dominated or at best a coinflip? You've now pissed off over 1/8 of your stack, keep in mind how early it is in this tourny. Let's say he flat calls and the other two come along for the ride(which they did), now you catch a piece of the flop and lose even more. How is this profitable? AQ is a good hand not a premium hand, and therefore does not deserve a raise. It's a hand I love to see a flop with if it's cheap, otherwise it may as well be 72o. Perhaps calling it the "worst advice I'd ever seen" was a little over the top, but it is certainly bad advice.

[SmileyEH]

In the early stages of a SNG it is very much like a cash game.

You are telling me you only play AK and 22-AA.

right.

I don't feel any need to convince you otherwise, because your reasoning is horribly flawed.

BTW, if you are sitting UTG with AQs with a 10 person field you will be domitated about 20% of the time...this number falls the later your position (given limps + folds in front of you). Thats a risk I (and my post flop play) are willing to take.

-SmileyeH

[poboy]

[ QUOTE ]
In the early stages of a SNG it is very much like a cash game.

You are telling me you only play AK and 22-AA.

right.



[/ QUOTE ]

In a raised pot ,yes I only play premium hands early on(what a dumb idea that is). There's a big difference between limping in with AQ,KQ,AJ and other "pretty" hands and calling over 10% of your stack to play them.

BTW if you call into a raised pot with AQ there is a much greater chance that you are at best a coinflip and at worst dominated, which is what I said in my last post if you had bothered to read it. I don't know about you but I don't need coinflips that early in the game(w/ my post flop play).