Commerce 2/4 and SSHE Appllication

[asdtexas]

I am in LA on business and take my nephew to the Commerce. He has never played poker in for money before. I plant him in a l-2 Stud game. He has a blast and won a little.

Meanwhile, I sit down in a $2-4 HE game. Very, very loose, Raises mean nothing and everyone calls a raise. 2 Hands for comments:

1. 10 9s (clubs) on the button. 4 limpers and the CU raises. I call and so does the BB. 6 to the Flop which is 10 9 8 (the 10 and 8 are spades, the 9 is a club). I have a backdoor flush, top two pair on a very connected board. Checked to the CU who bets. I call as do 4 others (10 big bets in the pot). The turn is an offsuit Jack blank, CU bets and I call since I am getting the pot odds to make a boat, but am sure that he has a Straight from his play. 2 callers. The river is a club. He bets, I call as does a little old lady. She wins with 34s of spades. He had a straight.
Q: In retrospect, I should have raised the Flop or better yet the Turn.

2. AJs UTG. I will raise. It is re-raised by a guy in MP who will raise with anything. A LP player re-raises and the BB caps it. I call. 5 players on the FLop of A 9s 2s. The suited cards are diamonds ( I have clubs). I bet, it is raised by MP, everyone calls including me. I check call 4th street which comes as a 5. The river is a diamond. I check call and the LP player who put in the 3rd raise wins with 95s. The MP had AQo
In a middle limit game, I would have folded on the flop after being raised or at least on the Turn. In this game, I felt that Check raising on 4th would not have worked. I think that my play was weak on both hands.

comments appreciated

[Malcom Reynolds]

For hand one, raise the flop. Protect your hand on a coordinated board, in a big pot. It is perfect since the person to your right bet, so you would be making everyone else face two bets cold and hopefully cut down the field.

[RichHarden]

[ QUOTE ]
10 9s (clubs) on the button. 4 limpers and the CU raises. I call and so does the BB. 6 to the Flop which is 10 9 8 (the 10 and 8 are spades, the 9 is a club).

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you mean the 10 and 9 are spades? There can't be multiple 9 of clubs out there...

[Bigdaddydvo]

Read pp 160 of SSHE

A flop raise on a board that coordinated won't do a damn thing. It is much better to call on the flop and hope for a turn blank; then a turn raise will give you a chance to protect your hand. but since the J hit placing 4 to a straight, I think the turn call is OK

[tadams]

Hand #1

It's debatable whether you should have even called preflop. Since you did, you should not raise the flop. It won't protect your hand in this case. Simply call, hoping for a blank on the turn (a J is not a blank) and plan on raising then. In this case, you should just call on the turn and fold the river.

Hand # 2

There are 20 small bets in the pot so betting or raising the flop isn't going to protect your hand and you may already be beat by MP or the BB, in which case you only have 2 outs to make your hand. I would check and call the flop and fold on the turn if you don't improve. Your AJ is probably not best and if it is, there are too many ways you can still lose.

-Tom

[pudley4]

[ QUOTE ]
I am in LA on business and take my nephew to the Commerce. He has never played poker in for money before. I plant him in a l-2 Stud game. He has a blast and won a little.

Meanwhile, I sit down in a $2-4 HE game. Very, very loose, Raises mean nothing and everyone calls a raise. 2 Hands for comments:

1. 10 9s (clubs) on the button. 4 limpers and the CU raises. I call and so does the BB. 6 to the Flop which is 10 9 8 (the 10 and 8 are spades, the 9 is a club). I have a backdoor flush, top two pair on a very connected board. Checked to the CU who bets. I call as do 4 others (10 big bets in the pot). The turn is an offsuit Jack blank, CU bets and I call since I am getting the pot odds to make a boat, but am sure that he has a Straight from his play. 2 callers. The river is a club. He bets, I call as does a little old lady. She wins with 34s of spades. He had a straight.
Q: In retrospect, I should have raised the Flop or better yet the Turn.

2. AJs UTG. I will raise. It is re-raised by a guy in MP who will raise with anything. A LP player re-raises and the BB caps it. I call. 5 players on the FLop of A 9s 2s. The suited cards are diamonds ( I have clubs). I bet, it is raised by MP, everyone calls including me. I check call 4th street which comes as a 5. The river is a diamond. I check call and the LP player who put in the 3rd raise wins with 95s. The MP had AQo
In a middle limit game, I would have folded on the flop after being raised or at least on the Turn. In this game, I felt that Check raising on 4th would not have worked. I think that my play was weak on both hands.

comments appreciated

[/ QUOTE ]

One nice thing about the suits of the cards is that they all start with different letters. So if you have the 8 of clubs, you can write 8c and everyone will know what you are talking about. There are also little icons below where you type that will show pretty little symbols:

[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

so we don't have to try to figure out if AJs means A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] or wait until later to find out it really means A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and the 9 and 2 on the flop aren't [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] but instead are [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (and thus we really don't have a flush draw) so we then have to go back and rethink our advice or just give up because it's taking too long and there are 100 other new posts on here each day that we need to get to.

You also really need to proofread your posts, because in hand 1 you have the 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (see how nice that looks?) showing up in your hand and on the flop, and you say some little old lady won when she only had a 4-flush [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Hand 2 - I've never played in LA but I thought all CA rooms had a 4-bet cap, but your action had 4 raises preflop [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Hand 1 you have a marginal call preflop, I'd probably fold. Don't raise the flop, wait until a safe card falls on the turn; a J is not a safe card so just call; river is fine to call one bet

Hand 2 - I'd probably check and see what happens. Fold to a bet and raise. Checkraise a LP player. Call if any other player bets and it's one bet to you.

[Malcom Reynolds]

deleted

Edit: thought about it and changed my mind

[Malcom Reynolds]

I've read it. I'm not an expert on applying the wait until the turn to raise aspect. My argument for raising here is that you are giving the callers 6 to 1 to protect a few longshot draws from having a chance. Isn't 6 to 1 reasonable? Usually you wait until the turn because raising now won't protect your hand satisfactorially?