Just started playing NL cash again. A couple of hands.

over_c · #1 09-24-2004, 12:18 PM

After playing tournaments and SNGs exclusively, I decided to try playing NL cash games again. I had tried this before and did very poorly.

Here are a couple of hands from Party $25.

Hand #1

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (10 handed)

saw flop|saw showdown

CO ($29.97)
Button ($42.95)
SB ($19.35)
BB ($41.90)
UTG ($129.90)
UTG+1 ($31.13)
UTG+2 ($27.80)
MP1 ($5.50)
MP2 ($7.25)
Hero ($60.20)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $0.50, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, Hero raises to $2.5, CO folds, Button calls $2.50, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+1 calls $2.

Flop: ($8.25) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+1 bets $2, Hero raises to $10, Button folds, UTG+1 folds.

Final Pot: $20.25
Main Pot: $12.25, won by Hero.
Pot 2: $8, returned to Hero.

I put UTG+1 on a draw w/ his weak bet so I raised him up even though I missed completely. I probably would have bet again on the turn if another club didn't fall. Good play in general?

Hand #2

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (10 handed)

saw flop|saw showdown

MP3 ($13)
CO ($19.45)
Button ($19.70)
SB ($42.15)
BB ($54.40)
UTG ($22.95)
UTG+1 ($21.90)
UTG+2 ($12.55)
MP1 ($25)
Hero ($25)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. MP1 posts a blind of $0.50. Hero posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG calls $0.50, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls $0.50, MP1 (poster) checks, Hero (poster) raises to $4, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG folds, UTG+2 calls $3.50, MP1 folds.

Flop: ($9.75) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+2 checks, Hero bets $9, UTG+2 calls $8.55 (All-In).

Turn: ($27.30) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($27.30) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $27.30
Main Pot: $26.85, between UTG+2 and Hero. > Pot won by UTG+2 ($26.85).
Pot 2: $0.44, returned to Hero.

Results in white below: 
UTG+2 has Ad Kh (two pair, aces and kings).
Hero has Jh Js (one pair, jacks).
Outcome: UTG+2 wins $26.85. Hero wins $0.44. 

Since the guy limp called I figured I had to take a shot at winning on the flop. I hoped he had a medium pair of some kind. I put him all-in because if I bet any less and he check-raised I would basically be pot committed and would think he may have smelled weakness. Should I have check folded after the flop?

shadyfin · #2 09-24-2004, 12:49 PM

Hand #1 - very aggressive play, a lot of people go broke when their AK doesn't hit. But still, if you have seen this player (UTG+1) regularly make a $2 stab at the pot and fold to a re-raise then it is a play to make against that player, not in general. Also, you have the player on the button yet to act and he called your $2 dollar raise before the flop.

Hand #2
The UTG+2 called your $4 raise - a scary flop came down for you - he slowed played you (probably noticed you were aggressive). You should have asked yourself what can I beat if he hit the flop in any way, nothing (you can likely rule out the duece)- hoping he had a medium pair, I can understand as he didn't raise the AKo and just limped in, but when he called your raise which was sizeable, I would be cautious, when the flop has you beat in more than one way.

schwza · #3 09-24-2004, 02:07 PM

hand 1 - use this play very sparingly. there are a lot of reasonable hands he could be holding that will call you. i'm more inclined to do this when my opponent is "obviously" bluffing - flops like

3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or

2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

in my experience, a weak bet most often means something like 2nd or 3rd pair and less often a draw. rarer still, it's a monster trying to play bet-raise-reraise.

hand 2:

i'd push here too. there's a good chance that villain doesn't have an A or K, but if you check, villain will likely bet, and you'll have no idea what to do. note that even if you're behind, you have backdoor flush and straight outs.

shadyfin · #4 09-24-2004, 06:03 PM

Just curious, but in hand 2: you say there is a good chance that villian doesn't have an A or K - what makes you say that, in reality he had both. What do you think someone would call a raise with? The only way I think you could make that assumption is if you have observed him for an hour or more and noticed that he is a calling station or chases every draw - then maybe - but anyway why push and risk that many chips - I would think that would be the last thing you would want to do in that situation - maybe in a speed tourney or something, but in cash games I see to many people make this move when they've been slow played (and just about everyone slow plays) and go broke quick.

amoeba · #5 09-24-2004, 06:15 PM

are you serious about the flop push on hand 2?

okayplayer · #6 09-24-2004, 06:36 PM

I'd have to disagree with the push here (hand 2) ... he's probably picked up on you being very aggressive, and was waiting to catch a hand to bust you - or I may be over-analyzing. Either way, I think I would check/fold this. JJ is not that great of a hand... And going for runner-runner straight or flush is just, well a waste of money.

over_c · #7 09-24-2004, 06:41 PM

I don't think anyone had picked up on my aggressiveness or lack thereof as this was the first hand I played at that table. The history shows that I posted a blind in MP and then raised after a couple of people limped to me.

The basic question is how often do you bet out on the flop after you raised pre-flop? Doesn't Super System say something about betting out almost everytime regardless of the flop?

okayplayer · #8 09-24-2004, 06:59 PM

Ok, sorry bout the aggressivess comment (from the post it seemed you were playing fairly aggressive).

I would be more inclined to bet the pot on a less threatening board (there were 2 overcards to your pair). I would be more inclined to do it after being at the table for a while and having a good feel for the players and their tendencies. But you had position, so you used it, it just came back to bite you. Also, you had to commit your whole stack to steal this, I would feel much more comfortable if I was only risking 25% or less because then you can easily fold when he comes back over the top.