Not-so-great Flop

[Kevin J]

Just got in the game a few hands ago. So far, no flops and I know zilch about any of the players. 3 limpers and I raise from the cutoff with KQo. The sb called. bb folded. 5-way.

Flop is KT8 all spades (I don't have a spade).

bb bets, 1 call, next raises.

Would anyone here fold?

[SA125]

I would Kev. You're TP is at best slightly ahead here, maybe way behind. They don't seem to be worried that you might have the A spade to go with your possible AK.

Steve A.

[Kevin J]

Thanks Steve.

I did fold. I realize I'm probably being results orientated, because I believe the biggest obstacle that prevents me from significantly beating these online games is my propensity to get pushed off winners. I wanted some other opinions.

Btw- I folded and the sb and 1st limper called. The turn was an off 7. The sb checked and now the 1st limper comes to life with a bet. The last guy just calls (and here is where I realized I very possibly folded the best hand), and the sb calls.

The river blanks, the sb checks, and the 1st limper bet again. The last guy folded and the sb called. The limper wins it with two red queens!!

I still think I like my fold, but I'm not 100% sure. It's not how often my hand is best, but how often it will FINISH best on the river.. Still, with only the 3 flush and no good straight draw on the flop, I wonder if I gave it up a little too early for a Party 15-30 game.

[astroglide]

i would probably cold-call, raise a non-spade turn, and fold to a threebet

[Kevin J]

[ QUOTE ]
i would probably cold-call,

[/ QUOTE ]

And you (no probably about it), do much better than me online.

I had a similar plan... I was going to call the flop bet and raise a blank on the turn. But between the bettor, the caller, and then the raise, I got thrown off. I figured that I didn't want to get overly involved with this board and against multiple opponents.

So this begs the question... How big of a mistake was this fold and how important is it to win this hand (which I would have), instead of being pushed off it? Would you say this particular hand is not that big a deal, or it is definitely a big deal if I ever hope to be a significant winner at Party's 15-30 games? I'd appreciate your input. Thanks.

[steveyz]

I would probably fold if this was played live. Online, I'd follow astroglide's online.

[steveyz]

I think that at the typical party 15/30 tables, calling and raising the turn, or 3-betting the flop are +EV, and it's not that close. If you had KJ, the decision would be much closer. Folding here is giving up too much, IMHO.

[Kevin J]

Thanks. That's what I was looking for. So making these types of folds CAN be disasterous and might be what's preventing better results online.

FWIW- I AM beating the games, just not for that much. Actually, my win rate is pretty pathetic given what I do in live games. This was a over a $400 pot and it's easy to see if I go on to win this hand more than my share of times, I am giving up way too much.

It's just curious to me how this can be a pretty easy and clear fold so often in a live game, but so clearly wrong when playing online. Like I said, all opponents were unkown. Had I known a little more about the players (like the 1st limper could've had 2nd pair that contained two red cards), I certainly wouldn't have folded. Thanks again.

[BubbleBoy]

First, I don't think I would raise with K,Qo in the cutoff after a couple of limpers. I don't think it is that strong a hand to raise with in a multiway pot. Maybe that comes from the fact that K,Qo was a losing hand for me at the PP 15/30 games so I've been more cautious with it.

BubbleBoy

Second, it stinks that this hand came up so early because you don't have any color on your opponents and some people in the PP game love to be real aggressive with their draws. I think you have to peel one of on this flop and see what develops on the turn. But proceed with caution and dump if a spade comes on turn.

[astroglide]

in a vacuum, i don't think the hand is the end of the world but it possibly indicates a general problem. the flop really isn't that scary, and a fourth trump will not show up a majority of the time.