Is this cheating?

[Ulysses]

Final table of tournament. 5 players left. Blinds 10,000/20,000. I have 500,000 chips in small blind. A very good friend of mine has 20,000 chips left after posting big blind. The other three players have 150,000 each. There is a big jump in prize money from 5th place to 4th place. Everyone is playing very cautiously because of the big jump in prize money from 5th to 4th. I have been stealing blinds with impunity. The jumps in prize money from 4th to 3rd and 3rd to 2nd are not nearly as drastic, though the jump from 2nd to 1st is huge.

Folded to me in SB. I have AA. I fold.

Is this cheating?

[MLG]

it depends entirely on your motives, which is to say it is entirely unenforceable as cheating. you can probably make more than the 20,000 chips your friend has in front of him if you fold this hand, and continue to steal with impunity. If that is your reasoning, then it can be a sound strategic decision.

[Cleveland Guy]

Technically I believe this would be cheating. It's a form of chip dumping.

However, doing it one time in the SB in a pot that the BB will get in a walk would not get you in any trouble.

If you did it say 3 or 4 times in a row, I think you'd have something.

It's still less than "ethical" play, but as an isolated one time play I don't see you getting in any trouble for it.

[MLG]

it is, in my opinion, only unethical if he is doing it in order to help his friend, as opposed to keeping an optimal game condition for his own chances at winning.

[Tosh]

For me it depends on whether you still do that if BB is not a friend. You could argue that folding here is correct as your ability to steal blinds and bully your way into a more commanding position is worth more than the chips you could win with your AA. However, I honestly think its cheating if you make the fold more because of helping a friend than your own edge; I think only you know that though so I can't say.

[Ghazban]

Did this really happen or is it just a thought experiment? Just curious.....

Its not cheating at all if you'd do the same thing were it someone other than your buddy in his position. If you only did it to preserve your buddy's tournament life, that's no good. In any case, I don't think you could be penalized for it as its definitely in your best interests as the large stack to keep the game 5-handed (so you can continue bullying).

[PokerSlut]

This came up recently in a CardPlayer article. The chip leader was accused of soft-playing when they were on the bubble (i.e. 8 players left, only 7 get paid, or something to that effect) when they layed down a big hand to BB in this situation, but the person justified it (rightly so IMO) in that it was to his advantage to keep the bubble player there in order to have a huge psychological advantage over the rest of the table.

I feel this might be a similar case, but it really does depend on your motives. If your goal is to keep your friend in so that you can continue to accumulate chips for yourself, then no it is not cheating. If, however, your goal is to give your friend a better shot at finishing one place up, then yes I consider that cheating.

[shawn_p]

[ QUOTE ]
You could argue that folding here is correct as your ability to steal blinds and bully your way into a more commanding position is worth more than the chips you could win with your AA.

[/ QUOTE ]

How does folding AA help to accomplish this?

[SossMan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You could argue that folding here is correct as your ability to steal blinds and bully your way into a more commanding position is worth more than the chips you could win with your AA.

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How does folding AA help to accomplish this?

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he keeps the "bubble mentality" going and continues to build his stack by stealing the remaining players blinds due to their reluctance to tangle w/ the big stack when there is a tiny stack that's about to bust out.

[Mez]

Clearly, he's acting with the best intentions of his opponent in mind. I don't know if its "cheating", but its probably morally objectionable if I were one of the other players. I would consider it chip dumping.

Suppose the same situation, and you min-raise and fold to your buddy's allin. This would be a little more proactive chip dumping.

Finally, suppose you had 27o in the SB and the button raises enough to put your friend allin. You push all in to force out the button and hopefully triple up your friend.

I think all of these situations are chip dumping/collusion, what you did was the least objectionable form (and least obvious). I personally would hate to be in a tourney with two people who refused to play against each other.