Starting over online...

[PokerSlut]

I played a little online for a few months, but then I cashed out pretty much everything I had online and started playing exclusively in casinos in order to really work on my live game. I started out playing the $100 max when the local casinos started to spread it last year, but with the exception of home games, I've been playing $200 max, $300 max, and occasionally 5/10 NL & 5/5 PL for the last several months.

And, I feel I've improved my live game dramatically in that time. While I believe I still have plenty of room for improvement, I have been very successful in the local games to the extent that I rarely find it challenging anymore, and have been playing mostly just to build my bankroll up enough to sit in the higher stakes games which don't spread as often. I'm still working on this, but in the meantime it's been almost tedious building up my bankroll to move to the next level.

In the meantime, I feel like I've lost touch with some of the fundamentals in my game. I think that online play forces you to focus on the fundamentals, especially at the lower stakes, so what I have decided to do is "start over" online and build up an "online only" bankroll from very humble beginnings.

I took $15 out of the scraps left in my Neteller account, and transferred it to Poker Stars. I've started at the lowest possible limits ($.01/$.02 NL) and plan to build up my bankroll (and skill) enough to play the 5/10 NL. Once I have reached that level (or if I bust out, I suppose) I will decide what to do about online play.

I thought I'd start with $15 and try to build up to 10 buy-ins for the next level before moving up. If 10 buy-ins seems like too much or not enough, please let me know because I honestly don't have enough online experience to judge what kind of fluctuations I'm likely to see. I want to reduce my risk of ruin to 3 sigma or so but I'm not sure really what kind of bankroll that corresponds to in NL. In my live experience I've never lost more than 4 buy-ins consecutively.

So far I've played one session (2-tabling), and I'm at $25 or so from nut pedalling essentially. At this level I learned quickly that bluffing almost never works, so I haven't bothered trying to bluff after the first couple of attempts. Conversely, I seem to get called by weak hands on large bets because other players are more than eager to try to catch me bluffing even though I only show down winners.

So, anyone else done this, and if so, how long did it take you to move up in each level? I've PT installed PT on my machine but I'm waiting for my registration code. I'll probably post some stats once I build up decent sized hand history. Right now I only have about 400 hands so the stats are pretty much meaningless.

[Sephus]

this doesnt make any sense to me. you've been playing $300 max games an occasionally 5/10 NL and you want to go down to penny blinds? youre worried about risk of ruin w/ a couple hundred dollars after being very successfu at $100-$300 max stakes? why dont you just put a couple hundred on netteller and play at whatever stakes you know you can beat and if you bust out, redeposit?

[PokerSlut]

Because my idea is for this to be a journey of discovery, of sorts.

I'm well aware I can just buy in for a few grand and play at higher stakes if I want to, but my goal is to build it up slowly to make sure that I don't transfer any existing holes in my live game into the online game, and because I will appreciate the higher level online games (once I get there) much more if I have to build the bankroll required.

[GlemZurg]

[ QUOTE ]
Because my idea is for this to be a journey of discovery, of sorts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Personally I think it sounds fun. I'll be eager to hear your progress.

Justin

[LokiV]

At low limits, it is a macho contest of 'I will not let you bluff! Oh you have k/k or a/a again, shucks' with a helping of being called with any suited hand for any bet preflop.

I applaud your journey of discovery. After I became a successful NL player (by my meager standards, you punks!) I took just the same journey you're on in the wonderful world of limit. And what a battle it was... good luck to you.

p.s. Just because we aren't doing this for our bankroll or overall success means nothing. It's a fun and skill building exercise. I recommend everyone try diving down to the lowest limits and working their way up. You'll learn a lot about every brand of player.

[PokerSlut]

I played a couple of hours today, and I'm down about $2.40 from last night thanks to this hand.

A little background:

The villain in this case had just sat down at the table, and pushed all his chips into the middle 4 times in a row previous to this hand.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) converter

UTG ($5.31)
UTG+1 <font color="purple">(Villain)</font> ($2.38)
MP1 ($4.92)
MP2 ($3.15)
Hero ($2.82)
Button ($3.11)
SB ($0.92)
BB ($1.93)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls $0.02, <font color="CC3333">UTG+1 <font color="purple">(Villain)</font> raises to $2.38</font>, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises to $2.82</font>, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG folds.

Flop: ($5.25) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>

Turn: ($5.25) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>

River: ($5.25) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>

Final Pot: $5.25

Results in white below: <font color="white">
Villain has Qc 8d (three of a kind, queens).
Hero has 8h 8s (two pair, queens and eights).
Outcome: Villain wins $5.25. </font>

Soon after this Villain took his winnings to a higher buy-in table which I followed him to, but unfortunately I didn't catch any cards before he lost his stack and left. So, I lost about 20 additional cents in blinds posted at that table as well.

Right after Villain logged out, my mom called me and I became distracted while 3-tabling. One table I had pocket K's, and at another I had top two pair. I ended up losing an all-in for about $2 (IIRC) with the pocket K's when my opponent (who had called a 5xBB+pot raise PF with QJo) turned a gutshot straight on me, but I made up for it with a similar win with the two pair.

[pshreck]

Im not trying to be critical or cruel, but I'm curious, if you are as good as you say you are, and are able to play pretty high stakes poker and be profitable, why are you playing for these incredibly low stakes? I mean, I've heard of great poker players starting with low amounts and trying to build it up, but thats usually like turning 500 into 25k. Starting with 15 bucks.... it will take you so much longer. Is your live bankroll so large that you can afford to not make any real money for such a long time?

[dogmeat]

This is the third post in two days from people telling us they are crushing the games online or bored because there is no challenge? My goodness, obviously the answer is to play micro-micro limits. IMHO you guys are full of s hit.
Tell the truth, you're busted, right? You won't "get in touch" with your game playing online. There are many more opportunities to do so in live games.

Dogmeat [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

[pshreck]

Have to say I agree with dogmeat in my initial opinion, but then again we could both be way wrong.

I have never heard of a player beating these games, playing well, then deciding the right thing to do is play in limits so small it will in no way help your game (no way 1 cent 2 cent blinds helps you become a better player when you already have played 5-10 NL).

No offense, I also think very few players IN THE WORLD play in higher stakes games and basically think they automatically make money without any challenge. I am very 'comfortable' with my profitability at 1-2 in foxwoods, but I would never say its not a challenge and I do it just to add to my bankroll. I add to my bankroll, but with the possibility of taking a hit to my bankroll on any given night, just like all the rest of us.

Also, I have heard of lots of players, including myself, of 'starting over' online. They ALL do it after they lose close to all of their bankroll for various reasons. Mine was for playing 200 SNG's with a bankroll of only 1500ish. Are you really as succesful as you say?

[PokerSlut]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, I have heard of lots of players, including myself, of 'starting over' online. They ALL do it after they lose close to all of their bankroll for various reasons. Mine was for playing 200 SNG's with a bankroll of only 1500ish. Are you really as succesful as you say?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. I make plenty of money playing live. This is merely an online-only experiment of sorts. The live games that I am currently playing in are very soft IMO and I think most of the players here, given sufficient bankroll, could probably do well in them.

But you don't have to take my word for it. I play pretty regularly with Limon, both in his home PL game and over the last couple of weeks he's been showing up at the NL game I play in at the casino after I convinced him how profitable it is. I dunno if he's been reading the fora lately, though. I haven't seen him post in a while.

Also, don't take this to mean that I'm abandoning live play at my current stakes in lieu of microlimit online play. I am still playing live. I played tonight, and will play tomorrow and Sunday assuming Limon's game is on this week. I'm just adding online play to the mix; it's something I can do while I watch TV during the weekdays when I'm too lazy or tired to go to the casino. And, when my live bankroll has reached a sufficient level to move up in stakes, that's what I'll be doing even though I'm going to have to start driving to a different casino to find regular games at that level.