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#1
09-16-2004, 12:44 AM
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extracting the max, or wussified betting?
20/40 being dealt 5-handed in the wee hours. First two players folded. Hyper-aggressive button brought it in for a raise. SB called, most likely because she was sooted. I called in the BB with AcJh.
The flop was Js2d6c. SB checked, I checked, the button bet as he did 100% of the time when he was the preflop raiser and the everyone checked to him, SB called, and I called. The turn card was the 9h. SB checked, I checked, the button bet as he did 100% of the time when everyone checked to him on the turn and he had been leading the betting, SB folded, I called. The river was the 3d. I checked, the button bet, I called, and he mucked without showing. He would have shown down ace-high or any pair. Protecting the my hand wasn't really on my mind, as neither of my opponents were the type to fold before the river with any hand they believed to have six or more outs to top pair or better. (With the loose caller on my left and the bettor on my right, there was no way for me to leverage his aggression to knock out the third player with a checkraise.) And betting for value wasn't really on my mind, as I was pretty much assured of a one-bet-per-round tempo. Besides, it was heads-up by the time it was time for my turn and river bets to go in, and lately I haven't been doing much raising heads-up on the big betting rounds with one split pair and no other draw. I have to go to lots of showdowns with these guys, and just calling takes some of the drama out of it. Anyone else ever play it like this? 
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#2
09-16-2004, 01:01 AM
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Re: extracting the max, or wussified betting?
[ QUOTE ]
20/40 being dealt 5-handed in the wee hours. First two players folded. Hyper-aggressive button brought it in for a raise. SB called, most likely because she was sooted. I called in the BB with AcJh. The flop was Js2d6c. SB checked, I checked, the button bet as he did 100% of the time when he was the preflop raiser and the everyone checked to him, SB called, and I called. The turn card was the 9h. SB checked, I checked, the button bet as he did 100% of the time when everyone checked to him on the turn and he had been leading the betting, SB folded, I called. The river was the 3d. I checked, the button bet, I called, and he mucked without showing. He would have shown down ace-high or any pair. Protecting the my hand wasn't really on my mind, as neither of my opponents were the type to fold before the river with any hand they believed to have six or more outs to top pair or better. (With the loose caller on my left and the bettor on my right, there was no way for me to leverage his aggression to knock out the third player with a checkraise.) And betting for value wasn't really on my mind, as I was pretty much assured of a one-bet-per-round tempo. Besides, it was heads-up by the time it was time for my turn and river bets to go in, and lately I haven't been doing much raising heads-up on the big betting rounds with one split pair and no other draw. I have to go to lots of showdowns with these guys, and just calling takes some of the drama out of it. Anyone else ever play it like this? [/ QUOTE ] I personally dont like it all that much, but if you felt he was one of those guys who will defintely keep pushing no pair with position then I think it's OK. A lot of time you will let players like that off the hook by putting presure on him early in those button/blind struggles. Anyhow, check raising the river is much better than check calling. You have a monster heads up agaist an aggresive button raiser.
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#3
09-16-2004, 03:11 AM
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Re: extracting the max, or wussified betting?
I can't comprehend why you wouldn't check-raise either the turn or the river. Your facing off TPTK with almost random cards on the river, you don't want to raise? It's no wonder the button is so aggressive. You're so passive that semi-bluffing against you is highly profitable.
my 2 cents. Eric
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#6
09-16-2004, 05:54 AM
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Re: extracting the max, or wussified betting?
[ QUOTE ]
It's no wonder the button is so aggressive. You're so passive that semi-bluffing against you is highly profitable. [/ QUOTE ] Where do you play? I want to play against you if you think that semi-bluffing a passive player who check calls is profitable. Seriously, I do.
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#7
09-16-2004, 03:22 PM
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Re: extracting the max, or wussified betting?
[ QUOTE ]
Where do you play? I want to play against you if you think that semi-bluffing a passive player who check calls is profitable. Seriously, I do. [/ QUOTE ] Oh man. The oldest put down in the book. You really got me. You can find me playing 15/30 on-line almost everyday. My username is the highly deceptive "elindauer". See you there. -Eric
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#8
09-16-2004, 03:49 PM
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Re: extracting the max, or wussified betting?
If the button is hyper-aggressive, I would definitely consider 3-betting preflop. You likely have the best hand right now.
After that, you need to check-raise somewhere along the way, probably the turn. He sounds like he's the kind of guy who wouldn't be able to get away from his hand even if you check-raise the turn and bet out on the river, so playing it the way you did meant that you won 1 BB less than you should have.
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#9
09-16-2004, 06:46 PM
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Re: extracting the max, or wussified betting?
Besides, it was heads-up by the time it was time for my turn and river bets to go in, and lately I haven't been doing much raising heads-up on the big betting rounds with one split pair and no other draw. I have to go to lots of showdowns with these guys, and just calling takes some of the drama out of it.
Anyone else ever play it like this? Sometimes with middle or bottem pair or Ace high, but not with top pair ace kicker. Check raise is a must on at least 1 street, maybe 2 if he's real aggressive.
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#10
09-16-2004, 07:08 PM
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Re: extracting the max, or wussified betting?
I go 3-bet pf, then c-r on either flop or turn.
Saying that because the other players will never fold draws you cannot protect your hand is just wrong. You want to make these people pay as much as possible for their draws. Even if they are +ev to call you, you're more +ev to bet/raise being ahead. The only reason I can see for playing like you did is to keep the sb in for as long as possible. On the turn the sb will either fold, and you fire away, or will call and you fire away.. I can't see not raising the turn unless you are really sure the button will not call your turn raise, but will bet the river when you check to him (and then you DEF c-r the river!)
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