Looking for a good article on stud tournament strategy.. is this one?

[Dentist]

I have a stud tourney with probably about 30 people coming up and I would like to do well.

I have basic Roy West 7-card stud knowledge.

Is this article good?
http://www.studstrategy.com/tournamentplaystrategy.htm

And if so, how can I print it?
It cuts off the words when I print and I can't copy and paste.

If there are any other good relatively basic articles, please link me to them.

Thank you.

[Andy B]

I haven't read the whole article, and I may not ever bother. I've gotten as far as the part where the author says it isn't worth playing pocket Kings if there is more than one Ace behind you. First of all, if there is more than one Ace behind you, that makes it less likely that someone has you beaten. Second of all, if you raise with you Kings, there is a better-than-average chance that you will stealing the antes, which are usually worth stealing. Thirdly, even if someone does have Aces behind you, your hand is live, his is dead, and you have will have position on him throughout the hand unless you improve. It isn't all that bad of a scenario, although chasing with second-best hands isn't as good a strategy as it would be in a cash game, especially as the limits go up. Overall, there just isn't any reason not to raise with those Kings.

In the paragraph before that, it's written in a very confusing fashion, but I think that he's saying that you shouldn't get involved with a big pair if one of your cards is showing in another hand. Again, if you raise with this hand, you should be able to buy the antes often enough to make it worthwhile. If you don't, you should be able to thin the field enough that the fact that your hand is dead won't hurt you nearly as much as it would in a loose game. Now, if you're up against a loose table and you have split Queens with a Queen gone, your hand isn't so hot.

I would recommend that you read 7CS4AP. West isn't the worst book I've ever read by any means, but it certainly isn't the best. Stud tournaments are structured like mid- and high-limit games, so 7CS4AP is going to be a lot more applicable, in my opinion.

[FeliciaLee]

[ QUOTE ]
I've gotten as far as the part where the author says it isn't worth playing pocket Kings if there is more than one Ace behind you. First of all, if there is more than one Ace behind you, that makes it less likely that someone has you beaten. Second of all, if you raise with you Kings, there is a better-than-average chance that you will stealing the antes, which are usually worth stealing. Thirdly, even if someone does have Aces behind you, your hand is live, his is dead, and you have will have position on him throughout the hand unless you improve. It isn't all that bad of a scenario, although chasing with second-best hands isn't as good a strategy as it would be in a cash game, especially as the limits go up. Overall, there just isn't any reason not to raise with those Kings.


[/ QUOTE ]
Well, we're on the same wavelength.

I hope you got my PM about Laughlin, Andy. I never got a response, if you sent one [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[timmer]

Yeah and remember to adjust for the structure changes.

timmer

[FeliciaLee]

Okay, I'm just on my first read, so this will be rough.

I'm not crazy about the king analogy in the beginning. There is just no time to sit around chewing your fingernails worrying if one of those two aces behind you actually has a pair of aces. You have to complete, you have to take a chance and then outplay the guy the rest of the hand, depending on how he responds to your completion.
----------------------
I am most definitely the lawn chair player, lol. With a bit of the tightwad thrown in, but I never play a hand passively in a Stud tourney, unless I am setting him up for a play within that same hand, just in a later card.
----------------------
I'm not crazy about his constant reminders to check down a multiway pot against an all-in player, unless you have a monster. Is this ethical, and even it it is, is it the correct strategy when you could potentially win a sidepot much bigger than the main pot anyway?
----------------------
I thought this was a pretty good line, because this is VERY true in the $200-300 Stud tourneys I've played in.

"Although it may seem silly, people really actually forget when they are betting against another player in a multi way pot that there is an all-in at the table who's cards may very well be the best of them all. I've seen multi-way bets continuing against all-in players showing high straights and flushes, which protects the all-in
player from busting out, especially if the flush and straight was completely live."
----------------------
This is just ridiculous: "Counting cards and suits has little relevance as there are not enough players in hands to get an accurate estimate of anything."

It is never irrelevant. Here is an example for you. We were three handed the other night at the Stud 8 tournament at the Four Queens. We were into the "big money" when this hand occurred:

[ QUOTE ]
I was up to about 10k, of the 59k on the table. We had only been playing three handed for about five minutes. I was dealt hidden aces with a jack doorcard. Terry also had a jack doorcard, and Wayne had a six. I completed Wayne's bring-in. Terry raised, I called. I caught another ace on fourth. We got all of our money into the pot. Terry had jacks, no low draw. I had AAAJ. Terry caught a second pair, jacks and sixes, but he only had two outs to fill. He could catch the case jack (remember, I had a jack doorcard), or the case six (Wayne had a six doorcard).

Terry kept saying, "I need a jack or a six, baby. I need to fill!" I don't think he had any idea just how slim he was drawing.

Suddenly he screamed, "Yes, YES! A six! I did it, I filled!"

[/ QUOTE ]
----------------------
Overall, the strategy won't kill you, and might be better than no strategy at all, if you've never played a Stud tourney. But I believe that Steve Badger's is better, and definitely TPFAP is worth dough.

I should write up a strategy. Surely my writing is better than whomever wrote that site. Then again, you weren't asking about opinions on the writing style, lol.

Felicia [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
www.felicialee.net

[Dentist]

I agree that as little as I know about stud, the Kings part of the article seemed really unsound.

Felicia, do you have a link to Steve Badger's information on 7 card stud hi?


Andy - I do have 7CS4AP... because at one time I wanted to learn stud... unfortunately I think i've only read about 75 pages of that book.

Maybe I'll go back to it if I have time.
However, I was hoping to use my basic 7 card stud knowledge, and just get a tourney edge on it.

Have either of you played any SnG's at pokerstars or party in 7 card stud? Would these be good warm-ups?

This tourney will be on stars.

[FeliciaLee]

Steve's strategy is for Stud 8, but since tourney strategy is basically tourney strategy, and since Stud 8 is played more like Stud High in the later levels, I think it will help you.

http://www.playwinningpoker.com/articles/03/02.html

[bygmesterf]

[ QUOTE ]
I have a stud tourney with probably about 30 people coming up and I would like to do well.


[/ QUOTE ]

If you are serious about playing stud tournaments, then you ought to get "Championship Stud" Which is mostly (%80) about stud tournament play. Like the rest of the championship series of books it assumes the reader can think for himself, and tends to approach things from the perspective of avoiding trouble and tricky situations.

Some of the advice in the ring game section for 7stud Hi, seems weird and unconventional, until you realize that the authors are talking about a game where most pots will be heads up, and raised on 3rd for isolation.

Also McEvoy's book "Tournament Poker" whoch has recently be rereleased by Cardoza has a good section on stud tournaments, and tournament play in general. TPFAP is good if you want to have a better understanding of the theory of tournament play

[Andy B]

I haven't read it, but Mason has been, even for him, extremely critical of Championship Stud.

[bygmesterf]

[ QUOTE ]
I haven't read it, but Mason has been, even for him, extremely critical of Championship Stud.

[/ QUOTE ]

With out getting into the flame war of the quality of Mason's book reviews with non 2+2 authors that he doesn't like. (Caro, McEvoy, Carson). This is something that you have to judge for yourself. The Championship series of books is written in a conversational style, and tend to have a theme that is different from 2+2 books (Avoiding trouble). They also assume you have enough poker experience to take the advice in context.

For example the ring game advice, which Mason doesn't like, is written by Max Stern and Tom McEvoy. Stern is the 1997 WC of S/8, and McEvoy has finished 3rd in the 1997 Stud Hi championship. Their perspective is somewhat influenced by being tournament players. That means there isn't alot of discussion about multiway pots and knock-out plays etc since those dont come up often in Stud tourney's. On the other hand, heads up pots occur often in tournaments and you don't want to waste alot of chips contesting them so the authors talk about that.

Do I think that CS is the best book on ring game stud. No.

Do I think that CS is a good, perhaps the best, book for stud tournaments ( R/S/E ). Yes

Do I think that CS complements 7CSFAP/TPFAP with regard to stud tournaments. Yes