Maximizing value on 1-way hands

[Ghazban]

In the past few days of playing low limit online Omaha8, I seem to be extremely passive when I have a lock low but no high. I live in constant fear of being quartered, I think. At the 2/4 and below games, I see a lot of people raising and reraising with non-nut hands (small flushes, 2nd nut lows, etc.) and wonder if I'm losing money by not being more aggressive with my made lock lows. Often, there are 4 or more players still in the hand on the river in these games so it always surprises me to see 3 of them get nothing back out of the pot. Should I be more aggressive in these loose games when I make a low with little to no high?

[jedi]

I'll take a shot at this one.

Try to notice how the other players are playing. If it's someone that tends to be rather tight, not entering a pot without nut hands or nut draws, then you're more likely to be up against a similar nut hand. Against these players, I tend to shell up into check-call mode unless there are 4 opponents or more in which case I try to figure out how to get the most money in the pot from everyone else.

However, your observation is absolutely correct. People enter pots with non-nut low draws more often than they should at a low-limit Omaha game. In this case, you might want to ram and jam the low and get them to pay you off if there are multiple opponents. Also, if I have ANYTHING at all for high, I might try to knock opponents out to get my nut-low/pair of 5s to hold up for high for example. You won't be pushing out sets or flush/straight draws, but a good opponent might fold a crappy 2 pair. It depends on the opponent, really.

That having been said, getting quartered isn't that big of a deal in limit as it is in no-limit or pot-limit.

[phildirt]

Yes I think you are leaving money on the table but not a lot. If you have the nut low using A-2 and three people on the river just call. However if with more than 4 on the river and you think everyone will call a bet espcially if the nut low is an oddball 2-4 or simular. Concede the top half and punish the people that have second nut low. Just don't go crazy reraising with the high and scare out paying customers. It's the opposite of bluffing in Hold'em bluff one good player capable of laying down a good hand, O8/b bet into many bad players not capable of getting away from 2nd best. Yes you will get Quarted or worse but if you are pick your spots it will be profitable.

[Buzz]

Ghazbam - A2XX is a good hand - not because it has the best chance to win the low half of the pot - but because if you make the nut low you can drive the betting and possibly scoop without having a very good high.

When you drive the betting, an opponent who also has the nut low is not, realistically, going to fold in a limit game. Nor will an opponent with the nut high. However, an opponent with a non-nut high that is better than your non-nut high might fold to the pressure.

When you drive the betting, the object is to force everyone to fold. But even if you can’t force everyone to fold, by driving out other non-nut high hands you enhance your own chances of winning high, and thus your chances of scooping or winning 3/4.

You win more by betting and sometimes driving out everyone (or just driving out all the non-nut highs that would have beaten your non-nut high) than you lose by betting and getting quartered. And it’s not even close.

Should you bet and raise with the nut low?

Absolutely!

Even with only two opponents?

Absolutely!

Even with only one opponent?

With only one opponent you have to use common sense and “play poker.”

Buzz

[Ghazban]

Thanks for the reply Buzz-- I've learned a lot about this game reading your posts in other threads. I actually didn't read it until this morning and I spent all day yesterday playing live 5/10 O8 with the thought of playing my one-way hands more aggressively and, though it was only one 9-hour session, I think it worked out well for me. I saw my pair of 8s hold up for high getting me 3/4 once betting strong the whole way (a huge surprise as I was almost certain the guy counterfeiting my low was going high) and, on another hand, I saved some bets with the biggest full house because I'd been observant enough to accurately put my opponent on quads (he'd bet many hands, raise some, and only reraise with the nuts or 2nd nuts on a high-only board so, when he reraised by check-raise on the turn, I knew he either had my kings full of jack (which would be a very suspect 5-king deck) or he had the other 2 jacks so I just check/called the river). I also generally got a lot of money in the pot when I had an excellent low with redraw(s) and, more often than not, I got a full half the pot. Sure, I got quartered a couple times, but I think I made more than I lost. In a tighter game, I question whether pushing 1-way hands hard is really the correct move but, as I don't have the bankroll to sit in any Omaha8 game that could be considered tight, that's probably not something I need to lose a lot of sleep over. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Buzz]

Ghazban - Thanks for the compliment and congratulations on your success.

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In a tighter game, I question whether pushing 1-way hands hard is really the correct move

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Good observation!

I don't think it is the correct move in a tight game. However....

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I see a lot of people raising and reraising with non-nut hands (small flushes, 2nd nut lows, etc.) and wonder if I'm losing money by not being more aggressive with my made lock lows. Often, there are 4 or more players still in the hand on the river in these games so it always surprises me to see 3 of them get nothing back out of the pot. Should I be more aggressive in these loose games when I make a low with little to no high?

[/ QUOTE ]

.... the game you were describing is not a tight game.

I think if you find yourself in a rock garden (very tight game) you have to become a rock yourself. But it's no fun to play that way, and you don't figure to win much, if any, money from the other rocks. When a rock is in the hand with you, the rock almost surely has the nuts one way or the other, and it's usually the nuts for low.

Therefore with only three of you in the hand, and with one of the three a rock, I don't think it's generally wise to jam with the nut low.

Just my opinion.

Buzz