First post...river bluff

hmohnphd · #1 09-07-2004, 03:01 AM

I've been lurking on 2+2 for almost a year and have read TOP and HEFPAP (and more recently SSH). I finally got up and running on Party at the end of May and have been going at it on .5/1 ever since. I've learned a lot on these boards so it's nice to finally post some hands.

Here's a hand I played today...first orbit, no reads.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, Hero 3-bets, MP3 calls, CO folds, Button caps, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (17.50 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, MP3 calls, Button raises, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (12.75 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, MP3 checks, Button checks.

River: (12.75 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, MP3 checks, Button bets, UTG+1 folds, Hero raises...

Seems like pf, flop, and turn are pretty standard, but I'm pretty sure out of my 15k hands (small, I know [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]) I've never gone for this kind of bluff. But I figured that Button has overcards or diamond draw because of his turn check and that I'm splitting with him at worst, and MP3 has shown no sign that he wants to call two BB cold so far. Not to mention that the river is a sort-of scare card and this is a big pot...it felt pretty reckless, but it also seemed right to try and win it.

Comments appreciated.

InchoateHand · #2 09-07-2004, 03:02 AM

It may have worked, but often, someone with a crappy pair will call you down. If you are going to try this...why not prep with a turn bet?

Cerril · #3 09-07-2004, 03:17 AM

I'd be as afraid of a top pair, straight, or flush coming back at you as anything here. It's not a bad place to bluff, but I also think that it's not going to work the 20% or so that it needs to to be worthwhile

hmohnphd · #4 09-07-2004, 05:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If you are going to try this...why not prep with a turn bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a good point, but I didn't bet the turn because I was just check/folding since it didn't help me. I didn't even think of bluffing until the button bet the river with what reeked of overcards.

RED_RAIN · #5 09-07-2004, 05:12 AM

Fancy Play Syndrome.

This all into a preflop capper? I gurantee, anything I cap with, with your goofy play post flop I'm calling the river bet.

hmohnphd · #6 09-07-2004, 05:17 AM

Perhaps, but once button checks the turn and bets the river last to act, I'm fairly certain he has only overcards. Plus, since the button capped preflop, I'm pretty much ruling out straight, and also I think he would have bet top pair or flush draw on the turn.

Obviously, if MP3 or button raises, then I muck.

DMBFan23 · #7 09-07-2004, 09:31 AM

That would make this a little bit more than a bluff then, what you'd really be doing is trying to drive out low pair hands and getting it heads up with a hand that you beat or tie.

don't flame me, board, I'm not saying I'd make the play, I'm just pointing out that it's not a "bluff" in the pure sense of the word

hmohnphd · #8 09-07-2004, 10:04 AM

[ QUOTE ]
That would make this a little bit more than a bluff then, what you'd really be doing is trying to drive out low pair hands and getting it heads up with a hand that you beat or tie.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes! This is what I should have said, since I am pretty sure I'm chopping at worst with button.

[ QUOTE ]
don't flame me, board, I'm not saying I'd make the play, I'm just pointing out that it's not a "bluff" in the pure sense of the word

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, as I said in my original post, it's not the kind of play I ever make (and it's not like I plan to start doing this more often), I just thought it seemed to be +EV here [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

kiemo · #9 09-07-2004, 11:03 AM

Against players who can fold to one more bet on the river this would probably be a very good play.

You are playing at low limit party though.

I wouldnt be shocked to see MP3 throw up a 8.

Would also be funny if button flips A6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Kips Bay Kid · #10 09-07-2004, 11:03 AM

I think it's a good gamble, button checks the turn with 4 players - is he hoping to get more action on the river or is he drawing a hand? I'd expect the latter.

If you bet the turn he could call you down, at least on the river you make him think twice about calling you.

In both scenarios it is costing you two big bets (less if the button bet the turn), if the pot was not that big it's an easy fold.