How fast should I have played this?

onegymrat · #1 09-01-2004, 06:16 PM

9/18 Commerce full, okay game. I raise UTG with A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Three cold-callers to BB (tilting chick who just open-mucked 77 and says to dealer, "You're going to kill me anyway!!", then a 7 flopped, hee hee) who 3-bets and yells, "send me home!!" I really wanted to send her home. I call as does the others. Five to the flop.

FLOP: A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

I guess I AM sending her home. BB bets, I call. One fold, MP (tight player) raises. Another fold. BB calls, I 3-bet. Both fold.

Ah, crap!

BB flashed K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

piguy24 · #2 09-01-2004, 06:38 PM

It seems to me that MP had a decent ace, maybe ATs or AQ. I think you should have just called the raise on the flop. Then, bet out the turn if you think MP would check, or attempt a check-raise on the turn if you think MP would bet.

Nightwish · #3 09-02-2004, 05:11 AM

I would certainly try to let them "catch up" as opposed to scaring them out.

Michael Davis · #4 09-02-2004, 05:25 AM

Well, you have a virtually unbeatable hand.

Whether I threebet right there or just call the raise is very dependent, but in a game with a bunch of loose action junkies like you are describing, I would have played it the same way and expected to get a lot of action from an ace and almost unlimited action if the last J is out. There is also merit to raising the BB's bet on the flop--it looks like you are protecting an ace-- but I wouldn't have done this here unless I had been ramming and jamming and losing a bunch of pots lately.

Raising wars don't happen all that often, but when they do, it is often because another player assumes you could not have fastplayed the nuts like you did. Most of the time, everyone has a weak hand and maybe pays you off, but when they are strong you get a ton of bets.

KK should not have folded on the flop. He had actual odds to spike a K and there is no chance you have AA. And he should have called the turn if a Q or T slipped off, too. The flop fold was terrible, and folding when you should call is a rare mistake in this game. Also, whatever MP had, he shouldn't have folded his ace-rag either and prayed for another J or A. (Of course the J wouldn't have been good in this case.)

I would have capped preflop without the "send me home" comment.

-Michael

Michael Davis · #5 09-02-2004, 05:27 AM

I agree that this is his most likely holding. He shouldn't have folded, especially if he had AQ, in which case he might have had four outs to win the pot and four to tie, and could even be chopping it right now, plus some backdoor straight draws.

-Michael

Michael Davis · #6 09-02-2004, 08:30 AM

Of course I meant to say that AQ might have three outs to win the pot (Qs) and three to tie (A and Js).

I was actually just getting to sleep when this thought horrified me and I restarted my computer to correct this.

-Michael

onegymrat · #7 09-02-2004, 01:17 PM

Hi Mike,

You are one to know why I popped it again. I REALLY didn't figure that any of the two would have folded. Perhaps my "image", as one of the regulars have stated, is too tight and I'm not getting any action. Although I've never seen these two opponents before.

I put the flop raiser on a flush draw originally, and BB on a big ace. I certainly would have peeled one off for one sb. There is certainly a debate for just calling the raise and leading out on the turn if SB checks, but with the type of regulars that I play against, I felt that popping it there was correct.

Also, earlier this week, I slowplayed a boat with JJ on a J44KQ board, and lost to QQ when he rivered me. Although I know that he would have possibly called me down no matter how I played the flop and turn, I chose sneaky and lost. It certainly may have lead to my fast play for this hand.

By the way, MP never revealed his hand but did ask me if I had "it". I replied, "I had AJ." Some other player commented, "I mucked a jack." Then as I racked up to leave while avoiding the BB I said, "Oh, maybe it was a queen."

Michael Davis · #8 09-02-2004, 09:25 PM

"You are one to know why I popped it again. I REALLY didn't figure that any of the two would have folded. Perhaps my "image", as one of the regulars have stated, is too tight and I'm not getting any action."

I am concerned that you didn't get any more action on this hand, especially against someone who probably had an ace. (Even bad players find it within themselves to sometimes fold KK with action like this.)

Having a tightwad image is okay, just make sure you are making up for not getting any action on this hand by making strong semibluffs and stealing pots that aren't yours. Eventually, you will get called down a few times and now your image is not the same any more.

-Michael