question on omaha hand

[unformed]

Omaha H/L game, I've got
9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in big blind.

6 callers, no bets

flop is
9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I've got top two pair, 4 outs to a boat, but there's 2 flush cards on the board.

Small blinds checks to you, it's your play, with four others behind you.

What do you do?

Results in white:
<font color="white"> I checked, called one bet, turn showed 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and I folded .... winner ended up having nut flush</font>

[Nick_Foxx]

umm u flopped 3 pair... u have 6 outs to a boat

i'd ram and jam it the whole way and hope to make the mythical noah's ark (4 pair)

my serious answer is i would check and fold

mike

[Buzz]

[ QUOTE ]
Omaha H/L game, I've got
9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[heaart] in big blind.

6 callers, no bets

flop is
9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I've got top two pair, 4 outs to a boat, but there's 2 flush cards on the board.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unformed - You actually have 6 outs, not 4 outs. (The two missing deuces are outs too).

[ QUOTE ]
Small blinds checks to you, it's your play, with four others behind you.

What do you do?

[/ QUOTE ]

Depends on the game a bit, but normally I'd bet.

Since you have three pairs with the flop, there is a reduced chance of being up against a set. You may make a full house or your two pair may hold up. Your two pair has a better chance of holding up against a smaller field.

You can't do anything about the nut flush draw. That hand will call your bet. But by betting you may knock out straight draws and non-nut flush draws. You may also knock out various other hands that may give you trouble later if they get a free ride on the second betting round.

You also either want the low chasers to pay or fold.

[ QUOTE ]
Results in white:

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for including them, but there are 990 possible two card combinations for the turn and river. You'll only be reporting 1/990 of the ways the turn and river could have turned out. And on top of that, what actually happens for each turn and river combination depends on the cards your opponents hold and how they play them.

Sometimes betting the flop will work out for you and other times it won't. Whatever way it turns out, you have to learn to take it in stride.

I'd bet this particular hand/flop.

Just my opinion.

Buzz

[unformed]

Gotcha, I'll remember that next time. Actually, the other reason I didn't bet was I was already low on chips and was simply going to check-call and make sure the flush didn't complete rather than try to build the pot to lose big at the end. i've generally seen people constantly chasing for flush draws on these games (Party $30) ...

Glad I did, since I ended up sneaking into the money with barely anything, and every chip would've helped ....

[Buzz]

[ QUOTE ]
I was already low on chips ..... I ended up sneaking into the money with barely anything, and every chip would've helped ....

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't realize, in my original replay that you were in a tournament rather than a ring game. Saving chips is an extremely important consideration in a tournament. However, at the point where you feel you're low on chips, stealing is usually more feasible than in a ring game.

[ QUOTE ]
...was simply going to check-call

[/ QUOTE ]

And since you have favorable odds to check-call, it’s hard to fault that line of play - especially in a tournament.

However, if you don’t bet here, and if nobody else bets either, you may not have favorable odds to see the river. Catch a non-pairing club on the turn, for example, and everyone may fold to a bet from the nut club flush. In that case, you’d only be getting 5 to 1 implied pot odds, in a situation where you’d need 6.33 to 1 implied pot odds to have favorable odds to continue.

Except for that, you do fine by always taking your chances on a draw - but you do better by sometimes stealing the six chips already in the pot than by always taking your chances on a draw.

However, if your opponents are such that stealing the pot after this flop is absolutely impossible, then I think playing your three pair as a pure drawing hand (check-calling, just as you planned to do) may be the best approach.

But in my mind it's a close decision. On balance, I'd still bet it rather than check-call - but I don't fault check-calling.

Folding seems too weak. You do have a trashy starting hand - but it fits well with the equally trashy flop - and you have favorable odds to continue to a bet (and although you don't have favorable odds to initiate a bet yourself, there are other considerations - like stealing the pot - that may be more important than having favorable drawing odds to initiate money into the pot).

Just my opinion.

Buzz

[ejp1]

I would be inclined to bet and raise with this hand. Since you have 3 pair it is unlikely you are against a set. Also most people playing omaha 8/b play low cards so you want to get them out of the hand so you increase your chances of scooping.The draws you may not be able to get them out of there but at least make them pay to draw out on you. [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]