PP 15/30 Flop Decision

Levi King · #1 08-30-2004, 03:32 PM

I've been advised to post more hands. Comments appreciated.

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO folds, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, Button raises, Hero ???

Pre-flop, I think, is an easy call. The question is, given that I have top pair with a crappy kicker and the 2nd nut flush draw, is it better to call or raise? Does anybody try and check raise the board?

KushP · #2 08-30-2004, 03:39 PM

This is an obvious situation in which I would cap the flop, cap the turn, and if given the oppurtunity, cap the river.

Ulysses · #3 08-30-2004, 04:39 PM

I've been going back and forth on this, but I think I 3-bet.

JeffO · #4 08-30-2004, 04:57 PM

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I've been going back and forth on this, but I think I 3-bet.

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wouldn't you like to keep the limpers between you and the raiser around?

CanKid · #5 08-30-2004, 05:22 PM

Do you really want those limpers? A hand like 56 might be expensive to play against if they get a 4 and you 2 pair up, I like the 3 bet - EP would have to lay down 56 to 2 more BB cold, yes?

my 2cents

Ulysses · #6 08-30-2004, 05:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Do you really want those limpers? A hand like 56 might be expensive to play against if they get a 4 and you 2 pair up, I like the 3 bet - EP would have to lay down 56 to 2 more BB cold, yes?

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56 is not folding on the flop in this game.

Ulysses · #7 08-30-2004, 05:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
wouldn't you like to keep the limpers between you and the raiser around?

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Part of what I was going back and forth about was how many of the limpers you're actually likely to lose if you 3-bet here.

Turning Stone Pro · #8 08-30-2004, 06:01 PM

I like the 3-bet on the flop myself. I think that (1) you are very possibly in the lead right now, and should get more money in the pot; (2) you are even money or so to improve by the end. This is an excellent flop, IMO: make 'em pay to chase with whatever garbage the middle limpers are playing.

Question is, what to do if you don't improve on the turn? If you 3-bet the flop and check the turn, it could be two bets before it gets back to you. If the turn card is a rag (no straight possible), I'd certainly lead on the turn and call all raises. If it possibly completes the straight, I'd check and call.

TSP

Levi King · #9 08-30-2004, 06:13 PM

I thought about it a while and just called the raise on the flop, along with everyone else.

Turn: (9 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 bets, MP3 folds, Button calls, Hero calls, BB raises, UTG+2 folds, MP1 3-bets, Button calls, Hero calls, BB caps, MP1 calls, Button calls $0.50 (All-In), Hero calls.

River: (24.01 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players, 1 all-in)
Hero checks, BB bets, MP1 raises, Hero ???

OK, now I'm stuck. Can I safely lay down my two pair?

Results in white: In the end, as expected, BB and MP1 both turn over TJ for the straight. It's irrelevant how many bets I *may or may not* have called on the river. I hate to be results oriented, but a 3B on the flop might have put these guys off their gutshot?

Levi King · #10 08-30-2004, 06:16 PM

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If the turn card is a rag (no straight possible), I'd certainly lead on the turn and call all raises. If it possibly completes the straight, I'd check and call.

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I saw this after I posted the results. Would you have called the betting mayhem on turn with the 2nd nut flush draw? I clearly couldn't get away from it.