ITH or SSH?

[bigslickfitz]

I have read (and re-read) WLLH and am consistently winning at the micro-limit games. I want to start another book and am curently thinking about going with either ITH or SSH. Right now I am only interested in playing in fairly low limit games, so let me know which one you think would be better or any other book that you would recommend.

[Sheriff Fatman]

SSH.

One of ITH or WLLHE is probably worth reading for a new player before SSHE but you'll get far more out of SSH now than ITH.

ITH is a good read at some point but, in terms of priority, there's only one choice in my view.

Sheriff

[Blarg]

If you read ITH, you'll have a solid foundation, but add an extra step. If you go directly to SSH, you'll do it without a really balanced foundation yet, and add in a lot of advice it can be hard to apply correctly, coming from a background that's a little iffy on the tools you'll have to judge it with or fall back on if things get confusing or go south.

It would be easier to get ahead reading ITH first and you'd do it in a much more solid, coordinated fashion. SSHE will be the icing on the cake.

SSHE w/o ITH after WLLH will make things harder to find your equilibrium point. Two potentially unbalancing influences and you have to find the fulcrum yourself. Could be tricky. Or maybe not, depends on you.

If you think you catch on very fast and have a natural sense of balance and perspective, you may not benefit much from ITH. It's not like it would hurt, though. If you're not sure of your quality as a player or your ability to always figure things out just right on your own, read ITH first and get a solid foundation before Ed starts your head spinning on your neck.

[bonanz]

may i take this opportunity to direct you to "the clarkmeister 5"

clarkmeister 5

[Stew]

[ QUOTE ]
may i take this opportunity to direct you to "the clarkmeister 5"

clarkmeister 5

[/ QUOTE ]

that's an excellent progression for a beginner, but I'd probably substitue Hilger for Jones and/or Jones then Hilger. But, I definitely think Hilger's book needs to be read as it is that solid in it's advice. After that AND BEFORE SSH, I'd recommend Theory of Poker.

[Leavenfish]

I would tend to agree with the Sheriff in some respects. ITH is more balanced and more of a general work--not geared towards trying to get every last drop of (somewhat risky) profit out of the low limits.

By more balanced, I not only mean that it has a more broad focus but that it can help restore a sense of balance to one's play. Here is an example:

I've noticed some others wailing about their luck with QQ on this board. If you look, for example, at SSH you see the blanket recommendation to RAISE QQ in late position. ITH notes that sometimes you should just call--like when 4 or 5 people are already in ahead of you. The reason? Well, it's two fold.

One: with QQ an A or K will come on the flop a good percentage of the time (elsewhere I have read that there is only an 18% chance of an A or K NOT hitting by the river). When that happens, you stand a very good chance of losing.

Two: You have a better chance of driving out your opponents on a favorable flop by keeping the pot small.

So, I guess I would read ITH first...and SSH later. One needs to be excellent at lay ups before one starts to consider mastering the pick and roll.

[SlantNGo]

Well, the SSH explanation for that is that raising is greater EV. It doesn't increase your chance for winning the pot any but who cares? When you get a nice flop and win the pot you'll more than enough to justify the raise to losing 1 extra SB on a poor flop.

[AliasMrJones]

[ QUOTE ]
One: with QQ an A or K will come on the flop a good percentage of the time (elsewhere I have read that there is only an 18% chance of an A or K NOT hitting by the river). When that happens, you stand a very good chance of losing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Except that 12% of the time you're going to hit a set of queens on the flop and even if an A or K (or both!) come by the river, the pair of aces or kings or aces up are worthless. As we know from watching WPT, QQ vs. AK is a very close race all-in with QQ having a very slight edge in % chance to win by the river.

What you really need to be looking at is the % chance that QQ is going to be the winning hand by the river vs. the range of hands that your opponents will be holding. 4-5 limpers likely hold much weaker hands than your QQ (again in terms of what will be the winner by the river). Given 5 random hands, each will win 20% of the time. QQ has a greater than 20% chance of winning against 4 other limp-worthy hands. Therefore, it is +EV to raise now.

[Ed Miller]

If you look, for example, at SSH you see the blanket recommendation to RAISE QQ in late position. ITH notes that sometimes you should just call--like when 4 or 5 people are already in ahead of you.

IMO, this is a weakness of ITH, not a strength. In 99% of games these guys are playing in, they SHOULD raise QQ 100% of the time if it is unraised to them.

Your reasons for not raising are more or less valid... but they do not provide ENOUGH value to overcome what you give up by not raising.

[spamuell]

[ QUOTE ]
I've noticed some others wailing about their luck with QQ on this board. If you look, for example, at SSH you see the blanket recommendation to RAISE QQ in late position. ITH notes that sometimes you should just call--like when 4 or 5 people are already in ahead of you.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been reading about how good ITH is and I was going to buy it, but now I have no intention of doing so.