Didn't check-raise; what would you do???

[zeero3]

I need help w/ these kinds of hands. Regarding flopping a pair w/ the nut flush draw.. Does anyone play these flops a certain way? This pot was raised PF, so I was not too sure about playing this one. However, I was GOING to check raise the 8 to approximately 30 when someone beat me to it. I would be trying to represent a set, but if someone had overpair or actually did have a set I think I'd be put all-in. I guess I got out of this hand; a hand I didn't really want to be in.....

How would you have played it if you were me? Let the roasting begin.....

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (9 handed) converter

UTG+1 ($78.05)
MP1 ($143.55)
Hero ($254.75)
MP3 ($100)
CO ($111)
Button ($105.10)
SB ($107.20)
BB ($91.60)
UTG ($108.70)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. MP3 posts a blind of $2.
UTG calls $2, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, Hero calls $2, MP3 (poster) checks, CO calls $2, <font color="CC3333">Button raises to $6</font>, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls $4, Hero calls $4, MP3 calls $4, CO calls $4.

Flop: ($33) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
UTG checks, Hero checks, MP3 checks, <font color="CC3333">CO bets $8</font>, Button calls $8, <font color="CC3333">UTG raises to $45</font>, Hero folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds.

Final Pot: $94

Results in white below: <font color="white">
No showdown. UTG wins $94. </font>

[MrFroggyX]

Hey.. this one was an easy post to respond to.. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I would have played it like this:

Preflop: Fold
Preflop after you got rasied: Fold
Flop: Check/Fold

But that's my way to play.. Weak and tight.. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

EDIT:
And if UTG had not raised on the flop, I would have rasied to around $30-$40 like you where going to do..

[phixxx]

Check fold the flop? Why on earth would you do that? One of the only reasons you'd play A8s would be for the flush opportunity, yet you fold to a raise when you flop a draw WITH a pair? I fail to see the reasoning behind folding, considering the implied odds you're getting.

[zeero3]

Of course this is the flop I want. However, there are two main reasons why I folded. #1 The pot was raised PF to a small amount and called by 3 others. I believe someone, namely UTG, has check-raised his flopped set. That basically would make my pair in this hand useless, my out to beat that set would have to be the flush. #2 Since my out is the flush and it will cost me FORTY-FIVE to see the turn, I would WANT to push to get him to fold. But, someone who check-raised $45 does not look to fold to a re-reraise and I don't want to go into this pot as an underdog for his whole stack (and half of mine). I DO NOT think

Maybe I could have bet the flop better? Does anyone else have any suggestions at this point? SHOULD I have called this hand w/ my stack behind me?

PHIXXX, what do you mean by "considering the implied odds I'm getting". If I stand by my reasoning it will cost me WAY over the pot to draw to a flush. I would think my odds were way against me.

PS: In another post, I flopped open-ended straight flush and pushed on the flop, so I'm not scared of a drawing hand, but this one seems like a basic flush draw if he's got a set, hey I could still lose to a boat!

[MrFroggyX]

It was a perfect fold..

Reasons:

1. Both CO and the button have called $8 each on the flop.. if you call his $45 you don't know what they are going to do.. they might re-rasie all-in. And then you must go all-in on your draw on teh flop.

2. As other posters point out.. Someone can have a set. Which means even if you make your flush you can get beaten by a boat.


I like your play.. except your pre-flop call.

[Kirkrrr]

You didn't mention what type of player UTG is. $8 into a $30+ pot is a pathetic bet, and I'll check-raise that to pot (which is what he did) just about regardless of what I happen to have at the moment if I know I'm playing a weak opponent. It works easily 75% of the time. I don't think you were necessarily looking at a set; TPTK-like hand was more likely, I think, and I really wouldn't be surprised at all if UTG had something like KhQh and was simply semi-bluffing. At that point, your decision depends on whether you think the Button will go along for the ride: you need 2:1 odds to draw to a flush. After Button bet and UTG check-raise, the pot became $90ish - you were ~almost~ getting the odds for the call.

I'd call, considering you have the odds to draw and 14 outs to make the best hand if UTG doesn't have his set... which I don't think is as certain as it seems.

However, folding isn't necessarily a bad choice. I think it's simply a matter of how much variance you can tolerate. But, again, since you have him covered and will make your hand about 60% of the time (counting another 8 and an A as outs), I vote call.

Just keep in mind that UTG is pot-committed and will more'n'likely go all-in on the turn, so calling that large of a bet on the flop ~doesn't~ make sense if you know you won't be willing to call the turn bet, as well.

Just my 2c worth.

Kirk R.

[zeero3]

Very nice reply Kirkrrr! I'm really thinking that the check-raise from that player was a great move, but I WANTED TO DO IT. If she had KhQh, then more power to her, but I just thought that the odds someone else had 2 hearts was very slim. I still believe the check-raiser had a solid hand (but you're makin me second guess.....).

BTW there is NO WAY I would just call that check-raise; it's push or fold and you're right, I didn't want to test the variance waters there. Thanks a ton.

[Kirkrrr]

No problem, glad I could be of help.

In regards to push/fold: Heads-up, it would definitely be a push or fold. The reason I think it would be a call rather than a push here is because UTG is highly unlikely to fold to your raise, and you WANT the original player in as he's giving you the odds to draw to your flush, so there's no reason to push him out of the pot.

Kirk R.

[zeero3]

I did not think about that; good point!

[cornell2005]

fine on all streets. preflop is a bit loose though given the stacks.