5th Street Raise?

[Joe Tall]

$7 Ante 15/30 online (5 handed)

Fairly passive game, 2 total feeders (my opponents in this hand) making the game juicy. I dont' play much stud but it was obvious that they were the soft spots.

2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img](XX) brings it in for $7.
J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img](XX) calls.
and I make if $15 with
8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img](8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img])

To fast?

The other two players, A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img](XX), K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img](XX), go away, bring-in calls, J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] calls.

4th:

A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img](XX)
7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img](XX)

I pull the K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img](8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img])

Checked to me, I bet, they call.

5th:

A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img](XX)
J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img](XX)
J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img](8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img])

AA bets out, JJ calls, your action?

Peace,
Joe Tall

[kgrad5]

Im gonna take a stab here but 15/30 is way above my limit and im pretty new to stud aswell. so take my advice with a grain of salt.

i find it hard to put either player on trips considering you have a J and an A folded 3rd, more likely A's up and a J's up i would raise here and see how they play back at you and you likely have the best hand, get your money in while you have the best of it. it will be hard for them to put you on anything that A's up beats with your board. the other thing is it will be relatively hard for you to fill given that a K folded and someone is holding atleast 2 jacks i would say with your board your drawing to 3 outs to fill and 1 out to quads if your looking to improve, and the possibility of a running pair.

its also possible that these guys have high pairs and flush draws. you are in a tough place.. i think i would still raise though.

[MRBAA]

In general, I think it's best to play small trips aggressively early. With an A and K behind you though, you might want to consider just calling in hopes one of them will raise letting you then either reraise or get in a c/r later. But I like just raising, too. If one of them really does have a pair or a big draw, he may well reraise anyway.

On fifth, this is where the info of stud comes in. You have one of your opponent's jacks, making trips less likely. You know he limped, meaning a possible draw. He caught suited on fourth (also a possible gut card if he started with 910 -J. On the other hand, he may only have limped with a pair of jacks for fear of the K and A behind him on third. Or he may have a pocket pair and have just made two pairs. Trip jacks is not his most likely holding.

As for the AA guy, he probably has aces up -- he didn't hit his door and an ace is dead.

Further, if the guy with jacks had trips, he'd likely raise the aces right there. Sure, he may lose you but the aces will call. Still, many players will get tricky and just call.

I think you have a pretty easy raise. If jacks three bet, you're probably against trips. But you can still fill to win, so you'll be calling down, including calling one bet on the river unimproved.

Chances are, though, you've got the best hand and the best draw.

btw, just noted that you said your opponents were very weak. This kind of player often way overvalues a hand like big two pair.

[SA125]

Give the A or K the chance to raise on 3rd and raise 5th.

[MBTIGUY]

[ QUOTE ]
To fast?

[/ QUOTE ]
15/30 is way above my pay grade but I do have a copy of 7csfap. Reading that into your situation, it seems you'd be looking to choose between playing your trips fast because they are low and playing them slow because you are aginst self-described passive opponents. Since you've already got two callers, I'd go ahead and raise rather than worry about scaring them off.
MRBAA's point about weak players overvaluing their hands is a very good one, especially when your strength is hidden (buried As, Ks, even Qs, or rolled up). That's when you paid off big time.
And FWIW, I'd raise 5th. I think you've got the best hand and if he's passive and catches nothing on 6th, you probably take it down right there (at least I do in my low-limit games).

[Nick_Foxx]

if u raise you are basically announcing that you are rolled up since there is no way anyone would raise with kings up after a bet from aces and a call from jacks

but if they are as clueless as you say they are, just ram and jam it the whole way

mike

[nef]

On third, either raising or calling is fine. My question is where are the fish? I would call if the fish were yet to act, or raise if they were in already. It appears the poor players had called so I would raise.

On 5th I would probably raise. You may be against trip Jacks, I highly doubt you are against trip Aces. I would expect the player to bet or checkraise fourth if he had an Ace in the hole. However if he is one of the poor players maybe not.

[pstripling]

At this point there are 2 case cards for you to worry about. The A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and the J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and they have to be in the respective hands to be effective. I think you are way ahead at this point. I would like to have the open pair of aces do the betting for me on 6th street and look to raise then. This play will hopefully catch the open jacks in for 2 extra bets. I think a raise here would cause him to maybe fold now (as his board can't beat the aces) or fold on 6th street unless he improves.

[CJC]

Hello,

You are ahead at this point, but that doesn't necessarily mean you should raise..

I call and wait till 6th to raise.. assuming JJ flush card doesn't hit... Lets see how many people here can see why..

If your opponents are utterly clueless and would play anything and call with anything, then I would raise by the way..

CJ

[MRBAA]

Hey CJ, good to see you back. His two opponents are clueless, he's probably way ahead, they'll probably both call at this point, so I get my money in right here. Yes, it "decloaks" his hand, but at this point, they are in there. btw, playing five way in fox 5-10 last week I had rolled queens, smooth called, two others in, caught the case queen on fourth, checked and one of my opponents actually made the double bet into me.