QQ overpair and a K on the Turn.

Kirkrrr · #1 08-07-2004, 05:29 PM

Hey everyone. This came up a few minutes ago and I'm really not too sure I played it right. Villain is a solid player and I put him on the normal range of PFR hands - AA, KK, AK, possibly but unlikely AQs. On the turn when the King came, his bet came within 1.5 seconds; don't know if that means anything or not but I thought I'll include it. Any and all comments appreciated.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed)

MP2 (Villain) ($85.55)
CO ($21.50)
Button ($23.10)
SB ($15.40)
BB ($16.75)
UTG ($21.20)
UTG+1 ($44.15)
Hero ($25.20)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls $0.50, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls $0.50, MP2 (Villain) raises to $2, CO folds, Button folds, SB calls $1.75, BB folds, UTG calls $1.50, Hero calls $1.50.

Flop: ($8.50) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $5, Villain calls $5, SB folds, UTG folds.

Turn: ($18.50) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Villain bets $5, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $23.50

Thanks in advance,
Kirk R.

Kirkrrr · #2 08-08-2004, 01:08 PM

Hmmm... don't y'all post all at once now. Seriously, "You suck!" or something....

Kirk R.

TheGrifter · #3 08-08-2004, 01:45 PM

Preflop - Don't limp with queens.

On the flop, bet the pot, there are a lot of hands that will either kill your action or scare you off your hand

On the turn, bet out, if you check there it's an autobet for most players.

There are very few players who only raise with AA/KK/AK from MP, either your read is wrong or this guy is incredibly passive. If he is that passive then I can see folding the turn, but you still should've bet into him.

bsiu5 · #4 08-09-2004, 07:57 PM

don't limp QQ. if you limped and it was limped around what if the flop had a king? you just lost to K3s. or some crap like that. raise please preflop so you don't lose to stuff like that. by raising preflop you can gather some info. on your players if they reraise preflop as well. you have no clue right now what does his $1.75 bet mean. could just mean he's trying to narrow the field of players.

i think the converter is wrong BB should be $.50.

on the flop i would at least pot bet. if he calls you put him on a set or over pockets or overcards. bet the turn pot it again. if he shows a reraise. just call and check call the river as cheaply as possible. he did have position on you but you do have a good hand.

Garland · #5 08-09-2004, 08:09 PM

Preflop: Raise yourself first. Barring that, I might have limp reraised.

Flop: Bet more. You're only offering 2.7:1. I think $7 or $8 should do it. You're giving odds just in case someone has a pair+flush draw or flush+straight draw.

Turn is tough since now that you've checked, you're basically conceding weakness and asking him to take the pot away. I guess you can get your money in at a better spot.

Garland

Garland · #6 08-09-2004, 08:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
bet the turn pot it again. if he shows a reraise. just call and check call the river as cheaply as possible. he did have position on you but you do have a good hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Note that any normal bet by hero would basically pot commit him on the turn. He has a short stack.

Garland

bsiu5 · #7 08-09-2004, 08:19 PM

Garland is right, i didn't look at his stacks. since you are shortstacked, you should have reraised his bet preflop, if you were going to limp. bet bigger on the flop too. Since you are shortstacked, i would have been more aggressive with my bets. when your shortstacked, any scare card kills you betting, you have to make a tough decision cause you'll be pot committted. Generally, when i'm short stacked i'm really aggressive to elminate my tough decisions, and if i get out drawn , just suck it up and re-buy.

Kirkrrr · #8 08-09-2004, 11:16 PM

Thanks for the responses, everyone. I normally limp with pockets less than KK when somewhat out of position, but that does bring up the excellent point that it's giving KJs a chance to get in cheap and make their hands. Well, lesson learned.

Kirk R.

AA suited · #9 08-10-2004, 08:32 AM

[ QUOTE ]
don't limp QQ.

on the flop i would at least pot bet. if he calls you put him on a set or over pockets or overcards. bet the turn pot it again. if he shows a reraise. just call and check call the river as cheaply as possible. he did have position on you but you do have a good hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

if he called your pot bet on the flop, bet pot again on the turn when there's a scare card???

What's the reasoning why this will leave you with more $ than check/fold?

JrJordan · #10 08-10-2004, 12:40 PM

I don't like your play here, way too weak tight all the way through. QQ is the 3rd best hand in the game (yes I think it's better than slick), so why are you playing it like 99 or 88? Raise that hand preflop. Or if you are intent on limping the first time through, throw in a reraise on the villain to better define his hand. If he's an ABC player, he'll basically call with any hand you're beat, and reraise to the two hands you're losing to (AA and KK). This way you can easily fold preflop while losing a lot less than you would by defining his hand on the flop or turn. That being said...

Flop: You have a strong, but vulnerable overpair. The villain raised preflop, so I'm guessing he would bet again if checked to him. I'd go for a check raise here and see if I can take the pot down now. The bet here isn't an awful option either, as betting into the PF raiser can be read as being very strong. If so, I'd suggest a bigger bet, probably $6-6.50.

Turn: You show too much weakness when the scarecard comes here. Again, this is a very hard hand to play because you have no clue what the villain has. It's going to be pricy to define his hand on the turn because of the pot size. The bigger problem now is any decent sized bet you make has you pot committed. You need to be willing to commit your stack here, or save it for another day. His bet is soooo weak though. I'm almost tempted to checkraise all in and try to take the pot. Of course, this would have to come down to your read. Would he bet small hoping to entice a bet, or is he trying to take the pot down with minimal risk. I'd say at this point with the little you know about his hand that this is a good laydown.

Make this hand easier on yourself and define his hand while it won't cost you your stack.