Proper hand protection? ATs on an Ace-high monotone flop

bdk3clash · #1 08-07-2004, 11:08 AM

"Sometimes, a flop raise will not protect your hand. When these situations occur, you should often just call the flop. If the turn card is safe, you plan to proect your hand then with a bet or raise.
(Small Stakes Hold'em, pg. 160)

I can't recall any specific reads I might have had at the time. Comments on each street appreciated.

Absolute Poker 2/4 Hold'em (7 handed)

Preflop: bdk3clash is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds, CO calls, Button calls, bdk3clash raises, BB calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
bdk3clash bets, BB folds, CO calls, Button raises, bdk3clash calls, CO calls.

Turn: (7 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
bdk3clash checks, CO checks, Button bets, bdk3clash raises...

aas · #2 08-07-2004, 11:57 AM

I would check the flop and see where the bet comes from, and plan to protect my hand if possible on the turn. I think betting the flop is ok too. In this case, I like your turn check-raise.

joker122 · #3 08-07-2004, 12:51 PM

I don't have my copy yet but doesn't that advice apply to multiway pots?

bdk3clash · #4 08-07-2004, 01:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't have my copy yet but doesn't that advice apply to multiway pots?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's 3-handed on the turn.

joker122 · #5 08-07-2004, 02:09 PM

It's 3-handed on the turn.

I sort of meant like 4+ handed...I don't know though.

Noodles · #6 08-07-2004, 02:19 PM

Why did you CR the turn,to be honest iwould've just check/called,is that too weak.Did you think that you had then best hand here? isnt it a bit dodgy to CR on this board?

bdk3clash · #7 08-07-2004, 02:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Why did you CR the turn,to be honest iwould've just check/called,is that too weak.Did you think that you had then best hand here? isnt it a bit dodgy to CR on this board?

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought there was a pretty good chance I had the best hand. Checkraising gives the CO 10:2 odds to call. If he has a 1-card flush draw it's very close for him to call, but getting him to fold when he's drawing very live is a coup. Ditto the button if he is semi-bluffing a [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or has a [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] + pair combo.

Noodles · #8 08-08-2004, 11:30 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Sometimes, a flop raise will not protect your hand. When these situations occur, you should often just call the flop. If the turn card is safe, you plan to proect your hand then with a bet or raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does protecting your hand (when it might not obviously be the best) mean that a bet or raise will drive others out and give you a better percentage chance of winning?

So therefore what you are asking is whether rasing is not great here as with the 3 flush even a guy with 1 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
will call you and they weill be getting the odds to call you,so better to call and wait for a non scary turn card?

I have not seen "hand protection" in the book i have,WLLH and the theory of poker,maybe it is there under a different name?

colgin · #9 08-08-2004, 11:56 AM

There is some slight element of hand protection here against someone with a medium to small singleton [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (nobody is going to fold either the K-J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] IMO regardless of what youdo, nor should they).

However, I think your play here (which I like) should be viewed more in terms of pot equity. Assume that you are not drawing dead to a made flush and that you are ahead of everyone else e.g., Button, who has a worse Ace, and CO, who has the singleton [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], and the last player some other junk hand that is drawing slim to dead. When you see a non- [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] come off on the turn your pot equity will increase significantly (probably around 15% give or take based on the few twodimes sims I ran). Getting in your checkraise now makes a lot of sense from that perspective.

Ed Miller · #10 08-08-2004, 12:37 PM

I don't know about the hand, but Tilt rules.