22. reasonable play or reckless chip spewing call down?

goofball · #1 08-06-2004, 04:48 AM

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. MP2 posts a blind of $15.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 raises, MP2 (poster) calls, Hero calls, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds.

Flop: (7.66 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (3.83 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 bets, MP2 folds, Hero calls.

River: (5.83 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP1 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 7.83 BB

I definietly felt like this was the right play when i made it. The second seven on the turn plus the bet out seemed thouroghly suspicious. Is this just a "feel" play you have to be in the hand to make, or should I start ignoring feelings when they tell me to make these sorts of call downs.

I've also been experimenting with more cold calls with the small pocket pairs but I'm not quite sure about this one.

Tyler Durden · #2 08-06-2004, 04:57 AM

Hands on Party go quickly; you shouldn't be posting in MP.

[ QUOTE ]
I've also been experimenting with more cold calls with the small pocket pairs but I'm not quite sure about this one.

[/ QUOTE ]

This experiment won't have favorable results. You should only be coldcalling w/ medium and small PPs if you expect a multiway pot.

goofball · #3 08-06-2004, 05:01 AM

yeah. i made a mechanical mistake there. i usually never post outside the CO.

and i hadn't noticed that i posted when i reviewed the hand in PT, so now i feel fine about the PF call.

Bogatog · #4 08-06-2004, 05:41 AM

Am I missing something, or does the hand say MP2 was the poster?

I don't see where hero is posting at all.

Anyway, on to the hand... I think in general these kinds of plays will result in losses. But, in specific situations where you have a semi read such as this, the call can be slightly profitable.

steveyz · #5 08-06-2004, 09:28 AM

Fold pre-flop. I'd need 77 or 88 here before I start thinking about calling.

If you want to take a stab at this pot, bet the flop. If check-raised, just fold.

Knockwurst · #6 08-06-2004, 11:17 AM

I agree with the steveyz and the other posters. Most often small pocket pairs should be folded preflop unless there are at least two other callers between you and the early/middle position raiser.

Having played the hand, you could take a stab at it when it's checked to you on the flop, and if raised take one off and if it's not your deuce fold at the first opportunity.

To me the preflop raiser's check on the flop seems very suspicious. He either has a K and good kicker (AK, KQ) and was looking for a check raise on the flop or he's slow playing a monster (KK).

I fold to his turn bet. What else could the preflop raiser have that you would be beating? AQ, ATs. Any other reasonable raising hand you're losing against. When the 7 pairs the board he has 12 outs to beat you (3K, 3J, and 6 outs pairing one of the two cards in his hand), and that's not even counting the times he has a straight or flush draw. Fold.

Turning Stone Pro · #7 08-06-2004, 12:13 PM

cold-calling a raise preflop in middle position with 22 is a losing proposition. not even close.

TSP

Garland · #8 08-06-2004, 01:12 PM

When it's checked to you, I would bet the flop. Same with the turn, and then check the river. I think this line works better than how you laid it out because you have fold equity and you can charge people with overcards to draw. The bonus to it all is if you can get another pocket pair to fold. If you encounter resistance along the way, you'll probably have to jettison your cards.

Garland

Nightwish · #9 08-06-2004, 03:16 PM

I seem to remember some thread a while back where Clarkmeister posed the question of how many cold-callers one needs before one should cold call with a baby pocket pair. I just wish I remembered the conclusion. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

My personal feeling is that cold-calling with a hand like this may be profitable if your name is Clarkmeister (i.e., you're an expert post-flop player) and you're fairly certain that at least one of the blinds will come along. Given that your post-flop play was anything but expert, you should probably muck this preflop. Frankly, so would I.

FoxRiverPlayer · #10 08-06-2004, 04:28 PM

I don't like the preflop call here, you need odds to flop a set. I'd want at least : one more cold caller ahead of me and a good likelihood of more cold callers (not 3-bettors) behind me.

On the flop: hmm, preflop raiser didn't bet the flop--that usually means a monster on party. Or he may have just been trying to checkraise with AK or AA. Or (less likely) he has QQ and went into immediate call-down mode on the flop. Fold it and be happy you got a free turn.