Rookies Bankroll

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I'm sure questions like this have been posted thousands of times and I've read a few of them but hopefully someone will be nice enough to help me out as well [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Basic background, been playing for about 2 years all home games till about a month ago i went online. Have read Jones Wllhe and S+M hold em for adv. players and I understand the differences between the two and that S+M book probably doesnt apply much to micro limits. I think I have a good grasp of what I need to do but like i said above only a month or so of real experience.

OK, started at party poker with $150. My overall plan was to focus on limit gaming, but I realized that $150 wasn't enough to last me so I decided to start with the $5 SNG to get experience and hopefully make some money, well it worked I was up to about $220 in a week or two. But Limit started to call my name. Figuring I've done ok at 3/6 live games I tried 2/4 lost, went back to SNG build up again then back to limit to lose, rinse, repeat.

Started to play $10 SNG found out they were the same as $5 and more profitable, did that, messed around with micro-limits, tended to lose, and some $25 NL, tended to lose.

AFter a recent bad run on everything I'm down to $86 but with Ed Millers book in the mail I want to start getting back to limit almost exclusively, with some tourneys for fun.

I've been reading that to play a .5/1 game at Party I'd need 300BB bank roll or $300. I can deposit more money but I figured I'll see how long I can last with my initial deposit (also hoping party will give me a bonus for a redeposit, do these exist?) [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Anyways, I think i lack a plan of attack or maybe I have one now. Can someone lend me some general tips on what I've mentioned above or steer me away from something like SNGs cause they might take me out of my limit game. Also I realize I should track my hand history, is there anyway to do this for free or do I have to buy a service? Thanks in advance.

[AcesKracked]

In my opinion you are correct that PP low buy-in SNG's are very different than the limit games at PP. First, you should only play 10 SNG's, not $5. The house rake is $1 for both which is 10% v/s 20%. The .5/1 limit game is a very good place to start. Without at least $400-500+ dollars you can go broke in the 2/4 3/6 games very fast. Stick w/ the .5/1 for a while and monitor your stats, if you are doing well in tourneys you probably understand the game well and it will just take some minor adjustments. I play mostly NL 25 and 50 and I now am trying to play more limit games and having to make some major adjustments from my NL game to remain profitable.
AcesKracked

[illunious]

It sounds like you're doing well at SNGs, why not continue to play them?

I think $86 is enough to start with at .5/1. The games are very very soft, if you're a winning player, there won't be much risk.

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(also hoping party will give me a bonus for a redeposit, do these exist?)

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Yeah, there's usually a new one every month. You can even cash out and redeposit the same money for them.

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Also I realize I should track my hand history, is there anyway to do this for free or do I have to buy a service?

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Don't know of a free service, pokertracker is the normal recommendation, and well worth the price. It's free for your first 1,000 hands to try.

[Big Folder]

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It sounds like you're doing well at SNGs, why not continue to play them?

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Well my overall goal is to become very good at limit and I think playing SNGs so far have made me play slightly different at limit where I'm making moves I shouldn't be. Overtime I'm sure I could differentiate between the two and have two different games. But I guess the main reason I want to avoid SNGs now is they take away from my overall goal, getting experience at limit.

am I being stubborn here or am I making a sound choice?

thanks for the advice, btw [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[Nottom]

Play in SnGs is certainly a completely different beast than a limit game. The micro-limits are breat easy to beat ... if you know how to beat them. Most players come in from playing homes games or something thinking they are better than they are and then being shocked that they keep getting crushed even in the low-limits.

If you really want to improve your game, go to the micro-limit forum and read all the major threads from the past 2 weeks (you can ignore anythign non-poker related of course). Post some hands of you own and be ready to accept some criticism.

You've already ordered Ed Miller's book which is great. Just be aware that his book is really meant for someone who is already pretty much a break even player or small winner and could be trouble for a player who isn't already beating the game becasue it tends to imphasize making some loose calls when appropriate and beginning players are usually already making too many calls.

[illunious]

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am I being stubborn here or am I making a sound choice?

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I think you are making a good choice. Play what you want to play, don't let me stop you [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[josh1122]

If you are serious about winning in micro-limit games then I suggest reading Winning Low-Limit Hold'em by Lee Jones as well as Ed Miller's book. WLLHE is a great first book to read in order to steer you in the right direction. I have not yet read Ed's book(will soon though) but I highly reccommend WLLHE.

[AKQJ10]

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I have not yet read Ed's book(will soon though) but I highly reccommend WLLHE.

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I second the praise for Lee Jones' WLLHE and i look forward to reading Ed Miller's book.

That said, a few weeks ago i saw a thread on one of the forums (micro-limits? here?) where a post of Ed's seemed to contain veiled criticism of Jones. Or maybe i read too much into it -- the post didn't mention Jones or his book by name, but it said something like "the leading low-limit books out there" or something. The point of the post had to do with folding too soon after the flop when pots are large on hands like top pair, weak kicker or second pair, but I read a subtext that Ed Miller didn't particularly care for the low-limit books that are out there, and in my mind that would point toward Lee Jones' book.

[moondogg]

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I have not yet read Ed's book(will soon though) but I highly reccommend WLLHE.

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I second the praise for Lee Jones' WLLHE and i look forward to reading Ed Miller's book.

That said, a few weeks ago i saw a thread on one of the forums (micro-limits? here?) where a post of Ed's seemed to contain veiled criticism of Jones. Or maybe i read too much into it -- the post didn't mention Jones or his book by name, but it said something like "the leading low-limit books out there" or something. The point of the post had to do with folding too soon after the flop when pots are large on hands like top pair, weak kicker or second pair, but I read a subtext that Ed Miller didn't particularly care for the low-limit books that are out there, and in my mind that would point toward Lee Jones' book.

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That's exactly what he was talking about. In subsequent threads/post/etc., Ed (and the rest of 2+2) have been pretty critical of Jones's book.

It's not that it's a horrible book (like pretty much anything by Ken Warren), but only teaches you enough to stop losing maybe win a little in low limit games. It doesn't actually teach you how to beat the hell out of those games. It just teaches you play tight most of the time and aggressive at certain times. For a beginner, it keeps you from getting into trouble. It tells you to stay away from risky situations. The problem is that people never grow out of this. The stay "weak-tight" because that is what Jones taught them in the beginning. At some point, a player has to graduate from these ideas and play more aggressively, pushing more edges more often, even (hell, especially) in low limit games, or you will be surrendering a hell of a lot of profit. Basically, you'll make 1 or 2 big bets per hour instead of 3 or 4. That's a lot of scratch.

I was going to put a link or two in here to some of Ed's posts on the subject, but there's just too damn many of them. Regardless, read WLLH and practice until you are a winner. Then read SSHE and be prepared to unlearn much of what Jones told you and reinvent much of your thinking.

[josh1122]

In my previous post what I was trying to get across was that WLLHE was a great place for him to start and go from a losing to a break-even/low profit player. That being said, SSHE would further his skill and allow him to make huge profits from the micro games(from what I hear anyway). So I guess my point is to read WLLHE for firm starting grounds, but as moondogg said be prepared to change some things in order to crush the games.

I think I expressed my thinking better in this post.(Kinda left out the part about SSHE being a step above WLLHE in the last one) [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]