Gambling (Long of course)

[davidross]

Once upon a time I loved to gamble. I used to go to the racetrack with a girlfriend once or twice a week. I played blackjack when I was in Montreal on business and had an evening to myself, and when I was in university I spent hours trying to figure out a progressive betting system that would allow me to win at roulette or blackjack. I enter NFL pools, and NCAA basketball pools. I loved the feeling winning a bet gave me.

Despite what my mother thinks, I don’t consider what I’m doing now to be gambling. I know that I am going to win money playing limit poker over any reasonable stretch of time, and I think I have proved that beyond any reasonable doubt. So now I’m hooked on tournament poker, and it’s finally dawned on me that I’m crazy about it because I’m gambling again. You can argue all you want about coming out ahead in the long run, but I don’t think I can play enough 1,000 person tournaments for the long run to ever take effect. Although I still like the feeling of winning a $700 pot in my regular game, I can’t ever remember a feeling like the one I had on Sunday during the WCOOP NL event, when I was already in the money, then got it all in with Aces against the chip leader who had K’s. I’m playing in a tournament with a first prize of $180K and the adrenaline rush was fantastic. The K that kicked me in the balls on the river sparked some intense emotions too.

I don’t feel like I have any control in the tournaments, and although it’s not completely true, I have way less control than I do in my ring games. It scares me that I am drawn so much more strongly to the game where I have less control. It worries me that I might have a destructive character trait, that is way to common in gamblers. But it doesn’t scare me enough to make me even think of stopping.

I’m still running terribly bad at Party, but I’ve had a remarkable run at Stars lately, starting with my 2nd place in the KOTZ tournament last month, 2 second last table finishes in the $11 rebuy in the last week (around $320 each), a money finish in the $500 NL event at the WCOOP, and last night my first final table in a $11 rebuy, finally finishing 4th, good for $2,300.

My tournament game continues to improve, as I start to recognize situations that allow me to win chips even without having the cards to justify it. Although circumstances didn’t allow me to acquire the coach of my choice (damn fossilman and the WSOP), I have gotten so much good advice from good players here, especially from my Vegas buddy eMark. Go read his response in yesterdays thread on “My problem in tournaments” and you’ll see why I have chosen a good mentor. Ed quite often pops in to my tournaments and PM’s me with tidbits of information about players or strategical options given my stack size. One of the most liberating things is playing low buy in events where you don’t mind taking chances. That’s why the Stars rebuy has been such a great learning tool for me. Stacks are deep, and if I lose I’m out $31. I’ve been quite willing to experiment there.

The real interesting thing to me about NL tournaments, is that the more I learn, the more I realize how much I need to learn. The other interesting thing is that I am playing with people much better than I am. In my regular game, I am one of the better players, and even the best players aren’t much better than me. I can’t say that about tournaments. Sure in the rebuy or a $30 Party tournament I am probably in the top 25% in ability, but the “super” events at Party, and the big buy in events bring out players who are so far beyond my capabilities, that I need to get hit in the face with the deck, and sometimes it happens.

Last nights rebuy was quite interesting. My usual boring first hour saw me acquire 4,200 chips until the last hand before the rebuy ended when my JJ beat AK and I had around 7,000. Add 2K for the rebuy and I went on with over 9K which is pretty high for me. Very early in the 2nd hour I had 2 dream situations. The first involved a guy on my right who made a small raise from the button. I came over the top of him all-in with AJ and he folded. The very next orbit, he raised again from the button and I made the same move. He called this time with 88, but this time I had KK. A few hands later I flopped a set against another big stack who flopped 2 pair, and now I really had chips, over 40K. I experimented in bullying at that point, something eMark has been all over me about. And it worked. I was able to make people lay down a lot of hands. I pushed draws hard and amassed a lot of chips. The last 10 minutes beore the bubble were amazing. I was the clear chip leader at the table, and I raised 3 out of 4 hands it seemed, picking up blinds and antes at will. Unfortunately right after we all made the money I got moved to a table with 3 stacks bigger than me and I was in 6th place overall. 9 tables left, and 4 of the 6 biggest stacks were on 1 table. That forced me to change gears, and I played very few hands for a while. I slipped from top 10 to around 14th as we got to 2 tables. I’ve been here two other times in the last week, going out both times while I was a significant favorite. I was to be more fortunate last night. My good hands met no opposition, so I was able to keep up with the blinds and antes. Players dropped pretty quickly, and although I started the last 2 tables in 14th spot, I was never the short stack. When we finally got to the final table though, I was 8th. There were 2 huge stacks, over $1 million each, while I had 200K. I doubled up very quickly against one of them who was really throwing his weight around. He limped on the button and I moved in with 66 in the SB. He called immediately and turned over 76s. No 7 came and I was in 5th place. I went up and down like a yo-yo. I made an ill-advised call when I raised with 99, and got re-raised all-in by one of the shorter stacks who had TT. I was almost out, but 2 consecutive wins with A4 and KQ brought me back from the dead.

I played all-in or fold for the rest of the final table, and I’m quite comfortable with that style. Very few decisions. But when a big stack doubled me up calling my A8 with his A4 I was in an unfamiliar position. Suddenly with 4 people left I had over a million chips myself and the blinds were only 20K/40K I had a lot of play all of a sudden. So now I started raising 3 times again, and now the 2nd big stack (I was 3rd) started coming over the top of me. This wasn’t a problem when I was pushing in. Twice I folded to his re-raise. On the 3rd time I had AT, he re-raised and I pushed in. He called with 88. I got no help and I was out in 4th. My game broke down here. It cost me $900 to go out before the short stack (he had 600K though so he wasn’t on the verge), and I think I should have just called the re-raise here. An overcard flopped, and although I wouldn’t have won the hand, I probably would have seen all 5 cards, and survived. I wasn’t able to shift gears that one final time, but next time I’ll be ready for it.

I’ve wasted a lot of emotion lately on the unfairness of tournaments. You can’t get through one of these big entry tournaments without winning most of your coin tosses and sucking out at least once. Last night I did both, my suckout being an AT vs QQ hand where my A came in. I was the shorter stack on that one and would have been gone. On the other hand, I fell almost liberated, being much more willing to push my chips in (but not calling all-in) and leaving it in the hands of the poker gods.

Now I have a new dilemma, I have the means to enter one or both of the big buy-in WCOOP events this weekend. I’m leaning towards playing the limit event ($1,000) on Saturday. Sunday’s is $2500 and I just can’t see playing that one.

[DonT77]

I enjoyed your story David. My experience is this - when things are going good I move up and I still do well, and when things are going poorly I move down and I still do poorly.

[mrbaseball]

[ QUOTE ]
I don’t feel like I have any control in the tournaments, and although it’s not completely true, I have way less control than I do in my ring games

[/ QUOTE ]

Great post as always. And I completely understand how you feel in this quote. Tournaments are sort of an act of faith. Yesterday I played one of the best tournaments of my life and didn't even make the second break. Several bad beats (including QQ going down twice to KQ) but every move I made was correct. Problem is in tournaments they end when all your chips are gone when you take the brutal beats once they have you covered. In rings you can just keep playing and eventually you will end up with the fishes chips.

The rush of the final table will always keep me coming back though. The ring games will always be more lucrative (unless I stumble into a huge tourny score) but the tournaments will always be more fun and exciting for me.

[Ulysses]

David,

You clearly love tournaments. The $2500 tournament is an opportunity for a huge payday and will let you play against a bunch of top players. This is as close to a large buy-in WPT/WSOP-type tourney as it gets online.

Based on the desire you had to play in the WSOP and your clear love of tournaments, I think it would be a big mistake for you not to play in this.

You've done a great job cranking out the hours, not getting frustrated, and methodically moving up the levels. You deserve to reward yourself with something that I know you'll really enjoy - and possibly regret if you pass up.

Play the $1000 and the $2500.

[mackthefork]

[ QUOTE ]
I don’t feel like I have any control in the tournaments, and although it’s not completely true, I have way less control than I do in my ring games. It scares me that I am drawn so much more strongly to the game where I have less control. It worries me that I might have a destructive character trait, that is way to common in gamblers. But it doesn’t scare me enough to make me even think of stopping.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you didn't feel this way you would not be normal in my opinion, without taking risks we have no lives, everyday we take risks, financial, emotional, physical without taking them we go nowhere and achieve nothing. Your interest in the challenge of large MTTs is healthy and not in the least destructive even if you think you have a negative $ expectation from playing them, your personal enjoyment makes up for this easily, and you play limit so well you won't run out of dollars either.

Best Regards ML

[fnord_too]

One way to look at a tourney is that it is a single event. In a ring game every hand is an event. From that perspective, you really have more control in a tourney than in a ring game, but it takes very much longer to get enough events to have any statistical significance.

[Tosh]

Nice report David, I believe it mirrors the feelings of many here, myself included.

As for the weekend, you should play both. I am only playing the limit event because I don't trust myself with 2.5k for a NL tourney yet but if you can put up the money and not be too affected by losing it then go for it. If you write it off as a cost of learning/enjoyment then you wouldn't be too conscious either. I expect the field to be very strong obviously, the experience could be invaluable.

[burningyen]

What a great post. I'm really starting to like this place.

[William]

Great post, as practically everything you write.
You describe very well what many of us in here feel, myself included.

I know though, that if I only played MTT, I wouldn't make the half of what I make today, so it is really a matter of willness to keep playing those ring games.

Online poker is though great in that way that you can play both MTTs and ring games at the same time.

Good luck to you this weekend, and looking forward to your next post,
William

[Unvme]

Great Post; I dont know what you are talking about ability level wise, I didnt enjoy having you on my left on Sunday. I did try to keep you in with A4 v. 88. I know the exact adrenaline rush, when we were down to 12 Sunday I was all in with AK vs. A9 and he hit a 9 and then my last bit of life with JJ vs. AJ, then A on the river. I know exactly what you are saying about the feeling of not being in control in tournaments. Anyway, I am playing the $2500 sunday due to my finish last sunday, if i fail to get in the money i will still be up $3k for the wcoop. As we all know you definately have the money to play sunday so I would go for it.