Full Tilt Poker Ante Structure

[nef]

I just downloaded FTP client and am checking out their stud games. When I bring up an empty stud table it states the ante.

$0.25/$0.50 ANTE $0.05
$0.50/$1.00 ANTE $0.10
$1.00/$2.00 ANTE $0.20
$2.00/$4.00 ANTE $0.40 Bring-in $0.50
$3.00/$6.00 ANTE $0.50
$5.00/$10.00 ANTE $1.00
$8.00/$16.00 ANTE $1.50
$15.00/$30.00 ANTE $3.00

Notice that the proportions are almost identical all the way up the limits.

This is something I have considered about net stud games for a long time. IMHO one of the biggest problems with live stud is chip denominations, ante proportions, and making change. Basically the ante proportions are hindered in a B&M casino by the available chip denominations. On-line, this problem is eliminated. You can ante whatever amount instantly. Therefore I would think an online casino would choose a worthwhile stud structure. In spite of this, many online stud games have really strange structures, almost random, and often inconsistant through the limits.

Whenever I thought about having an internet card room, I always felt that I would choose a structure for stud, and use it proportionally all the way up to the highest limits (e.g. $3/$6 with a 0.50 ante, and $30/$60 with a $5 ante). If necessary I would maybe increase the proportion slightly at the higher limits. I also always figured it would be best to choose a proportion that is a very successful game in the live casinos. I think the main benefit of this would be that more players could easily move up in limits. Also the games would probably be better with the higher antes than is the norm in the on line stud games. The $10/$20 games are usually super tight and sucky.

I think the other thing that really hurts stud, at least in my area is all the spread limit $1-$5 games. If there was a reasonably structured $3/$6 or $4/$8 games for players to start out in I think my area would better be able to support a mid limit stud game.

Another quick note, I noticed that when the HE games were heads up on a full ring table, the SB was on the button!

Don't get me wrong, I am all for learning a structure and adapting your strategy to it, I just really like the approach this site has taken for their stud games.

I am not affiliated with FTP. I also do not have any real $$$ there yet.

[Minnow]

A recent post mentioned the ante structure of Poker Stars Stud games. It sounded much more reasonable than Party Poker. Up to that time I wasn't even aware that Poker Stars had enough stud games going to make it worthwhile playing there. I always thought they were mostly a tourny site. But I've since checked pokerpulse.com and was surprised to see that Poker Stars runs second to Party Poker in number of stud games being played. I just checked out Poker Stars site today and was a little chagrined that I didn't look into this sooner. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] Their antes are just what I would want them to be as a beginning stud player. Antes for the stakes from .50/1 up thru 10/20 are roughly 10% of the small bet. Whereas on Party Poker the .50/1 game has .25 ante and the 1/2 thru 5/10 games all have a .50 ante. That ante is ok for 5/10 but for the lower stakes games it's terrible. Comparing the antes for the 3/6 games if you play 20hours/week at 50hands/hour you'll be putting in $13,000 in antes over a 6 month period at Party Poker vs half that at Poker Stars. I just signed up with Poker Stars tonight. Hopefully now I'll get a more realistic feel of how good or bad I play before moving up to higher stakes. Don't know anything about FTP except what you posted here. Based on the ante structure of FTP you described it doesnt look like I'll be playing there either. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[nef]

I prefer the $3/$6 $0.50 ante. It has the same structure as $30/$60 in most casinos. Its not a terrible structure at all. I don't like all the super tight games like $10/$20 with $1 ante. It is retarded to have the same ante across 4 or 5 different limits (like party). The 3/6 is a good structure IMO, but party did that by accident it appears. Thats why I like full tilt's structure, they actually size the ante according the the game limits.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the other thing that really hurts stud, at least in my area is all the spread limit $1-$5 games. If there was a reasonably structured $3/$6 or $4/$8 games for players to start out in I think my area would better be able to support a mid limit stud game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep. 1-5 sucks ass. Tight as chit and boring too. Sam's town spreads a 2-4 25c ante game. I praised them for it. I wish they would all spread similar games, perhaps stud would regain popularity at all limits (I wish it would, especially at 5-10 and up). A few casinos spread 2-5 spread limit with a 50c ante and a $2 bring in. That game is ACTION!

al

[Andy B]

I'm of the opinion that on-line poker should mirror casino poker as much as possible, and that the stud games should have the same ante structures. $15/30 has a standard structure with a $2 ante and a $5 bring-in. I think the $3 ante might be even better, as it should encourage gambling (gambling should always be encouraged). That makes it the same structure as $75/150.

Making change in live games isn't an issue if people keep enough small chips in front of them. When I play stud, I usually buy a rack of whatever the ante chip is and a rack of the chips that are actually used in that game. When I was playing $30/60, most folks bought a stack or two of $5 chips, and seemed to think that my buying a rack of $5 chips to go with my rack of $10 chips was a good idea. When I play $3/6 and buy a rack of $.50 chips, I get funny looks. I get funny looks anyway.

Canterbury Park has a reasonably structured $3/6 stud game, with a $.50 ante and a $1 bring-in, and it has not supported a mid-limit stud game for a few years now. Almost all of the action is hold'em.

I don't think that having exactly the same structure throughout the limits is necessary. I think it's good for stud games to have an ante, but I think that the higher limit games need to have somewhat higher antes proportionally than the lower limits to level the field just a little. Low limit players usually don't have to be coerced into gambling.

I can't fathom why these internet sites have these $.50/1.00 games with a $.25 ante. I mean, how much would it cost them to get some $.05 or $.10 chips?

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Al:

The main reason cardrooms spread $1-$5 games was to rake the tourists a lot. In the past, these games would drop for a cardroom more than any other poker game. However, along with the poker boom, rakes have increased at virtually all limits (as well as tournaments) and now the drop at higher limit games has caught up to the $1-$5 stud games. So with this being the case, there's really no reason for cardrooms to spread much of this anymore, and it is dying out.

Best wishes,
Mason

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Andy:

You're touching on a topic that virtually no one understands. A higher ante does two things. First it increases fluctuations, and second it handicaps the expert players.

For poker to be successful, you need a proper balance of luck and skill. In stud, the very best players, who move to the highest limits, become extremely skilled. Thus they need to be handicapped more than the better players at a lower limit.

However, some stud structures, such as $40-$80 with a $10 ante handicap the experts too much and the games die out, while other structures, such as $$40-$80 with a $5 ante don't handicap the best players enough and the games die out.

So a cardroom, whether on the Internet or B&M should be aware as to what structures have evolved per limit and what structures are successful. For example, $15-$30 is successful, and has been for years with a $2 ante, not a $3 ante. So that's probably the best structure for it.

Best wishes,
mason