Applying SSH correctly? JJ Hand

CPA · #1 07-29-2004, 08:54 PM

I haven't posted in a while....I took a break from poker and waited for SSH to come out. All villians are loose.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, Hero raises, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button folds, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks, CO checks.

Turn: (5 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG folds, Hero raises, CO calls, SB calls, BB calls.

River: (13 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero folds, CO calls, SB folds.

Final Pot: 15 BB
Main Pot: 15 BB, between CO and BB.

Did I apply SSH correctly on the Flop? I didn't want to bet and give the gutshots the correct odds to call. Checking on this flop is better than exploiting a small edge (two overpair hands chapter...i.e. the TT hand)?

I don't care about the results, I just want to play correctly. Also, I was 99.9% sure somebody had an Ace on the river (both did and split the pot)....I know better than to not fold for one bet on the river.

Ed Miller · #2 07-30-2004, 12:32 AM

Ok guys,

I don't remember if I said this in the book or not, but this checking the flop through thing is becoming an epidemic.

There is a BIG difference between RAISING someone else's bet after a bunch of people called, and BETTING.

When someone bets and a few people call, none of those callers is likely to fold if you raise.

But if there hasn't been a bet yet, everyone could decide to fold.

So there are plenty of spots where you would choose to just call a bet, but to bet if checked to you. Priority #1 is to protect your hand! The "Two Overcards Hand" thinking only comes into play when you cannot protect your hand.

CPA · #3 07-30-2004, 07:41 AM

You anticipated people misapplying your advice, right? I was just hoping I wasn't one of them.

This makes perfect sense. You can't protect your hand from the gutshot on the flop, but you could against a Kx and Qx....duhhh [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

Thanks for the reply!!!

colgin · #4 07-30-2004, 08:44 AM

By not betting the best hand here, instead of potentially giving your opponent correct odds to call with his gutshot (not to mention overcards, etc.), you are giving a free chance for him to make it (or essentially infinite odds to make his draw). You need to bet here to protect your hand. See pp. 71-72 of "The Theory of Poker" (if you have it) for a discussion of this.

Holm Fries · #5 07-30-2004, 08:45 AM

I typically bet the flop with an overpair. Just me though.

Nick709 · #6 07-30-2004, 08:53 AM

I think this is also discussed in HEFAP if i'm not mistaken.

Guy McSucker · #7 07-30-2004, 10:54 AM

[ QUOTE ]

I didn't want to bet and give the gutshots the correct odds to call.

[/ QUOTE ]

What gutshots?

The only gutshot hands are those with a 6, which you have no evidence are out, or an A, which also have an overcard to beat you and will be getting odds to call even on the turn.

Somewhere in SSH theere's a sentence like "gutshots are your target here", but in that case, there was good reason to believe gutshots might be out (flop is A Q x or somesuch so KJ, KT, JT all have gutshot draws) and less reason than here to believe our own hand was badly beaten.

Guy.

lil' · #8 07-30-2004, 11:20 AM

I think this is also discussed in HEFAP if i'm not mistaken.

THAT old thing? Is it still in print??????

CPA · #9 07-30-2004, 11:32 AM

"The only gutshot hands are those with a 6, which you have no evidence are out, or an A, which also have an overcard to beat you and will be getting odds to call even on the turn."

Good point.

Obviously I should have bet on the flop....but I guess you don't learn if you don't post.

DerrekL · #10 07-30-2004, 06:22 PM

Also remember that not everyone is going to call all the way. Some people may have read other books and will toss the gutshot no matter the size of the pot.