The Path to 15-30

[sammy_g]

I want to become a winning 15/30 player. What is the best path to take to get there?

Some Background:

I've been playing poker since February. I initially desposited $500 and have built this up into a $9000 bankroll. I generally play 4 tables of 2/4 on Empire and have won over 3BB/100 there after 40K hands. I've also dabbled in 3/6, 5/10 (6 max), 10/20 full, and 15/30. I have won small amounts at each of these limits, but have not played nearly enough hands to draw any conclusions.

I realize 15/30 is a lot different from 2/4, and I have a lot to learn.

My Questions:

1. Should I work my way up through each limit or should I just take a shot at 15/30? Is this too much of a jump? I am not a professional player, and my bankroll is replenishable.

2. Is it worthwhile to play the 5/10 and 10/20 full games? I hear at these limits most games are shorthanded, and the full games are a bit tougher for this reason.

3. Is it important to learn to play the 6 max games?

4. What materials (books/software/etc) do I need to study to be successful at the 15/30 limit?

Any advice from those who have walked this path would be extremely helpful. Maybe I just need to hear a few success stories to inspire me. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Thanks!

[lostinthought]

There was a recent post in this forum that was very similar to this post. If someone remembers who the poster was - a link might be helpful.

You want to make the jump because you prefer full games to short games?

I think you can learn quite a bit from spending time at the 5/10 short and 10/20 short tables.

But, if you have regular income, and play poker seperately (i.e. don't depend on it), there's nothing wrong with taking a shot at it if you really want.
You have the bankroll and a fair amount of experiece.

Good luck.

[sammy_g]

[ QUOTE ]
There was a recent post in this forum that was very similar to this post. If someone remembers who the poster was - a link might be helpful.

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That would be great. I'll dig through the posts to try to find it.


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You want to make the jump because you prefer full games to short games?

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That's one reason. Another is simply you can win more at 15/30, even with a smaller BB/hr rate. Another is the smaller relative rake. I remember davidross commenting that he wished he had made the move to 15/30 sooner. Of course, he spent a lot of time at 5/10 (6 max) as I recall.

2/4 is my current comfort zone, but I've watched some 15/30. I think I can beat it! There are some very good players in those games, but I've also seen some bad players -- enough to make it profitable.

I would like to go pro someday. I feel like if I can beat 15/30 consistently, I can do that.


[ QUOTE ]
I think you can learn quite a bit from spending time at the 5/10 short and 10/20 short tables.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sure this is true.


[ QUOTE ]
But, if you have regular income, and play poker seperately (i.e. don't depend on it), there's nothing wrong with taking a shot at it if you really want.
You have the bankroll and a fair amount of experiece.

Good luck.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you for the encouragement.

[stoxtrader]

[ QUOTE ]
I realize 15/30 is a lot different from 2/4, and I have a lot to learn.


[/ QUOTE ]

so is the 3/6. why not try that first? seems to me you've spent too much time at 2/4 and not enough at 3/6 or 5/10. 2/4 on a 9k bankroll?

your stats suggest 15/30 is possible, but your vexing approach to changing limits has got me stumped. it certainly wouldn't take much time to play 5k hands at 3/6 and 5/10...

that said, take a 3k shot at 15/30 and see what you think of the game. You currently have a 2,250BB bankroll for the limit you are playing.

[hillbilly]

congrats on your nice run...my thought are why can't you spend some time at 10-20 and beat that game before moving up..it has the same 1-2 blind structure you are used to... that said if the 15 game looks better then go for it...i would just play one or two tables at a time i don't see how people can play four or more at once and not be missing somethings but that's just me

[sammy_g]

[ QUOTE ]

your stats suggest 15/30 is possible, but your vexing approach to changing limits has got me stumped. it certainly wouldn't take much time to play 5k hands at 3/6 and 5/10...

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree my approach to moving up has been a little haphazard. It's one of the reasons I made this post: to ask about a more structured approach.

I have played about 5K hands at 3/6 and have a win rate of over 5BB/100. I must be running well.

I keep playing the 2/4 games because I believe they are more profitable than the 3/6 games simply because the players at 2/4 are that much worse.

I have avoided 5/10 because those games are mostly shorthanded, and I prefer full ring games. Maybe I should take my lumps at this limit.

Thank you for your advice.

[SpaceAce]

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You currently have a 2,250BB bankroll for the limit you are playing.

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LOL... some people just don't like pressure.

Go ahead and take a shot at $15/$30 and see how you like it. Also, play the short-handed tables. You will learn a lot from short-handed play and it will almost certainly teach you to be more aggressive. Online low-limit short-handed games are awesomely profitable for a competent player who can adjust to the aggression.

Edit: Hmm, maybe I misunderstood. I guess you were asking if the full games were tougher at $5/$10 and $10/$20. I've never actually played $10/$20 short-handed but I can tell you that the $5/$10 games tend to be very wild and populated by very poor players.

SpaceAce

[steveyz]

I basically moved up directly from 3/6 to the 15/30 and I actually didn't spend as much time at the 3/6 as you have at the 2/4. However, I did pay the price for this move.

Basically, my story is that I played about 25k hands of 3/6, had a good run and made almost $6k and decided to try the 15/30. I tried the 5/10 and 10/20 for a bit, but as you have noticed, most of those games are short-handed and I didn't like that. Also, the player at the 10/20 full games tend mostly to be solid players while the 15/30 has a good amount of rich aggro fish that you can exploit. I too am not a professional player in that I'm not depending on poker to pay my bills. Also, I made enough from my job that I could replenish my bankroll if I had to.
Well, guess what happened? I had to replenish my bankroll. I went through some large swings ($5k+) in the first couple of months before going on a nice rush and never looking back. I've now played approx 35k to 40k hands and winning consistently. Consistently enough that I believe I could support myself through poker. In hindsight though, I think practicing short-handed play would have been very beneficial. But if you have access to a large bankroll (poker profit or not), I think trial by fire is fine as well. It worked for me [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] although it did not feel too great when I had to replenish my bankroll.

[Fianchetto]

I think this was also mentioned by someone in the other thread, but I felt that playing the 5/10 shorthanded games before I took a shot at 15/30 was a real good thing. It prepared me for a higher level of aggressiveness, and I learned to like shorthanded play.

It sounds like you have the experience and bankroll to take a shot, just be emotionally ready for much bigger swings in your bankroll, because of bet size obviously, but also since the 15/30 is a lot more aggressive than 2/4 or 3/6.

[MarkD]

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I have avoided 5/10 because those games are mostly shorthanded, and I prefer full ring games.

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This is wrong. There are plenty of full 5/10 tables. I have been playing 4 5/10 full's a for a long time.