Marginal Situation

[Clarkmeister]

40-80. Very good Bellagio 80 pro open raises 3 from the button. He'd have a reasonably wide range of hands here, especially on my BB because of my perceived tightness, but nothing totally absurd. LP folds, Floater coldcalls in the CO, button folds, fishy loose spazzy SB calls, I call in the BB with KsTh. For a variety of reasons I've been looking for spots to loosen up some of my blind defenses and decided this was a spot to experiment with a hand I normally fold. The thinking being that I have a fish in the hand, and that the preflop raiser, while a very good player, has a sufficiently wide range of hands that domination is not an overriding concern relative to my pot odds. 4 to the flop for 4BBs.

Flop: Td 7c 5d. SB checks, I check, PFR bets, Floater calls, SB calls, I checkraise. PFR 3-bets, Floater folds, SB calls, I 4-bet, PFR calls, SB calls. 3 to the turn for 10.5BBs.

Turn: 2s. SB checks, I bet, PFR calls, SB calls.

River: 5s. SB checks, I bet, PFR calls, SB folds.

Thoughts?

[Cheap Shot]

When pre flop raiser made it 3 bets to go on the turn I would be thinking he had an overpair he wanted to protect.
When you cap and he calls, he very well still could have the overpair and is just worried you hit big and is calling you down. Im sure you had odds seeing as the small blind was along for the ride. I don't think PFR calls you down with less then A/10 there though.

*Correction* 3 Bets on the flop is what I meant, thanks Clark...

[Clarkmeister]

The action was on the flop, not the turn.

Also, note that a cap is 5 bets, not 4.

[Cheap Shot]

Well the cap being 5 does change the situation slightly. I suppose it shows a weakness in him. But I still would think hes not going to call this down with less then 10 + a decent kicker. Maybe by not capping he could be on 10/J or 10/Q suited. I still would be concerned about an overpair...

[Philuva]

I like it fine. The PFR could very easily put you on a flush draw when you CR the flop with that many players in there, so he figures he might be ahead and can clean up some outs by making in 3-bets on the flop even with just overcards, or he might have a weaker top pair. Then you 4 bet which probably tells him you are not on a flush draw, but he is still getting the right odds to call with just overcards, so I don't think you can put him on a overpair. Specially when he does not raise the turn, I like the river bet as well because you are going to call a bet either way, and the pot is large enough that he might call with A high since there is a small chance you could be on the flush draw still.

[Analyst]

Taking coals to Newcastle here, but I'll comment anyway.

Pre-flop, given the dead money (you're getting 7-1 on your call), the PFR's view of you and the fact that you can trap a couple of weak players positioned in between the two of you, the call doesn't seem loose at all. Especially if you can get away from something like a Kxx board in the face of determined resistance.

On the flop, the CR is automatic and pretty much guaranteed to haul in the floater and the SB. Really ideal, unless of course you're looking at an overpair. However, the PFR could very well put you on something like A7s or K7s, or maybe even A5s, when you check-raise, no? And if he has something like 99 or 88 (which I suspect he does), that explains his 3-bet. The 4 bet would, and did, slow him down in this case.

Turn, river - given the flop 4-bet, you have to bet the turn. PFR knows you don't have an overpair, as you'd almost certainly have raised PF, but is determined to see the showdown, again reinforcing that he has a mid-pair but is afraid you have him beat. No chance for another CR, I don't think he'd go for it on the river, so may as well bet out.

Looks good. How'd I do?

[badinfluence]

Given your comments on his perception of you, I like the way that you called preflop. Further, I think the same thoughts show themselves well to play the flop fast.

[ QUOTE ]
*PFR* has a sufficiently wide range of hands that domination is not an overriding concern relative to my pot odds. 4 to the flop for 4BBs.

[/ QUOTE ]

The river call would have made me say ... damn ... best thing I could hope is that he turns over AKd, A7d? 98d? Yes ... hopefully?

However, the same thoughts make me really hate when he calls the river. If he thinks you are tightish, then the call on the end probably denotes you are beat. I am execting JJ, QQ, KK, AA, or AT here.

Sorry to you if you lost.
Sorry to me if I am making everyone on this board stupider by the post. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[Knockwurst]

Okay -- I'll take a shot at this one even though I'm not worthy. Pre-flop call marginal, but good for your table image. On the flop you made a great four bet for value and to take control of the hand. On the turn I like your betting out -- PFR is probably giving you two pair or an over pair and SB is likely on a flush or straight draw.

But I have to say I like a check on the river (this might be my weak-tight personality coming out -- I do need to learn to make more value bets on the river). What could the PFR have where he's calling you down to the river. Would he put in 4 bets on the flop and a bet on the turn with 99 or 88. I think his likely holding is an overpair or A10. It seems to me that this is one of those situations where he is only going to call you if he's got you beat, and may even bluff bet the river if you check.

[J.A.Sucker]

Once you decided to play the hand, I think you played it fine. However, this one is close preflop; I'd rather have a hand like 79o here, but since you are getting 7:1, a call is fine. If I were playing well, then I'd play it, but if I wasn't at my best, then I'd probably muck it. The real issue is are you ready to go into chicken-mode if a K flops and it's headsup with the LP raiser? If so, then fine.

[J.A.Sucker]

You can't "be concerned" in big pots. You've just got to try to win them. Single bets come and go, but big pots buy girlfriends diamonds, and those are forever.*


* Actually, DeBeers is a bunch of bastards, and I prefer saphirres, but that's an "other topics" post for another day.