"Oh woe is me" number

[MS Sunshine]

Spicy's response to the thread about biggest wins and losses just staggered me. Losing $39K in one day blows me away. I know he is playing much higher than I, but still. $39K! It would break my marriage.

How do you continue? No question that after I had finally stopped playing for the day and had swirled the number $39,000 around in my brain for awhile that heavy drinking would soon take place. The next day, when you awaken in a pool of your own vomit with a hangover that would kill lesser men, do you just go to the computer and add your name to a few waiting lists and start over?

At what size daily loss does the pain become too great? When do you start to make different decisions? When does game selection go out the window? When do you start to take the frustration out on those around you or on inanimate objects(or furry anitamte ones)?

When it is over(read: busted), do you curse God or just stare numbly at the screen wishing it was OK for you to cry at your age?

Do you sit an analyze what went wrong?(Well, Joan, the Goddess of Negative varience, she beat my ass raw, but on a few key hands it seems I was the one using the whip on myself) Or do you just purge all the HH's for the day and change your screen name?

Do you sleep for 12 hours then finally wake with dread, because you must face the Poker Machine in the next room? Does the life of a $5 crack whore pulling ten man trains seem more attractive then sitting in front of a computer smoking pot all day?

I've been pretty much flatlined lately so I'm not speaking from recent pain. My wife is also a player. She has won 60 NLH buy-ins in the last 60 days with a good amount of days off. On days that she is winning, she's an animal. Four games for 12+ hours. Mainlining Dr Pepper, which makes her hands sweat after about 20 or so(about an hour). And I mean SWEAT. The cats come by to be petted and come away looking like they were locked in the dishwasher during the rinse cycle. Quite as a mouse playing machine-like until she picks up a hand then the Charlie Chan voice comes out. "Ah, your bet means you have good hand. <chuckling> BUT, I've flopped a set. <evil laugh> Now, how am I going to make you pay and pay with your TPTK." Sex is great too, but it's at 5am and like her poker play very aggressive. She scares me. Kligons are more passive in bed than her after a big poker win.

Now the other side of the coin is the $2000 downdraft over a few days time. Overplaying of TPTK and the constant whining when she picks up a big pair "Well, here goes another buy-in, I wonder what they will show me now" mantra. We do get to bed at a decent hour, but she wants me to hold her while she tells me her day of bad beats and remarks that maybe the 2+2 Conspiracy Theory nuts might have a point about Party flops. At this point I'm usually rolling my eyes and wondering how much sex with a pretty woman is really worth to me.

When I'm good-size loser for the day, I know that maybe I don't have my A game going, but it's still +EV. To me, the biggest problem with a large daily loss is the loss of earn in the following days by the large drop in hours that I will play. I'm starting to think that I'm not being honest with myself about my<insert any winning player's name here> play also. The reason I feel this way is seeing another winning player making poorer decisions while losing, granted this is subjective except for the PT data that shows slightly higher VP$P and PFR numbers. She feels, like us all in this spot, that it's just poor luck and she doesn't feel she is playing different.

I was never a believer in stop-loss. If I ran a roulette table, I would never closes it down just because it was losing. A poker player is making decisions that can be effected by the frustration of losing. Large daily losses effect a player's willingness to put hours in the future.

Would a winning player do better long-term with a stop loss?

MS Sunshine

[Inthacup]

I'm surprised you're that shocked by Spicy's biggest loss, when taken relative to his biggest win. I'm not really sure what game he was playing when he lost that much, but I'd assume it's something like 200-400 or 25-50 NL or higher. at 200-400, that's a 100 BB downswing. Any long-time online player has experienced that in a single day.

It's all relative. If I lost that playing 2-4 at pacific, then hell yeah, I'd be waking up to a pool of my own piss and vomit.

I've never lost that much in a day, and if I did, it would have a significant impact on me. However, if I had won something like 500k this year(which Spicy probably has), then 40k becomess just a normal downswing.

Perhaps this was just a prelude to the hilarious 2nd half of your post. I feel stupid even writing this, knowing that you're been around longer and won a helluva lot more than me. Oh well, I've written it, and it's posted on the internet forever. and ever.

Sue me.
Cup

[Baulucky]

I was under my bed for three months when the SB stole my $0.02 at UB lowest limits because my conexion was frozen.

Talk about a depression...

[Hotchile]

Hi MS,

I have discussed my adventures in getting stuck and digging out (or at least attempting to) here before. My record is: stuck 120 BB's and escape with a 15 BB win. While I was getting buried, my wife took the cats to the park because she didn't think they should hear that kind of language.

I still don't believe in stop losses per se but I have started to believe in stop losses re: time played. I rarely play longer than 4 hours at a time online anymore. Whether up $3000 or down $3000, I am calling it a day. When I have been "running bad" for a couple of days, I will play even less time and in a lower limit.

I completely agree with your point regarding the decision making process and I don't just mean with the hands that we play or how we play them. Online, the games are a constant influx of new players. Cycling a full field in half an hour is certainly not that uncommon. The problem this causes is, when I am stuck to my eyeballs, am I able to notice that the complexion of the game has changed so much that I may not be a big favorite anymore? The 80 BB's that I lost have left the table and the new guys aren't playing in a way conducive to regaining them, but did I notice?

I play 2 games at a time in the 5/10 and 10/20 limits so I am looking at close to 150 hands per hour. That is 5x the amount that I could have seen in a B&M. IMHO, that is alot of tax for my barely average grey matter. 4 hours of that means 600 hands or 20 hours of B&M play. Physically, I am not as tired, but mentally, I am no longer able to recite the alphabet coherently.

My two cents on the subject, I will wait for change if need be.

HC

[InternetPokerPro]

I can give you (or whoever cares) the benefit of my personal experience. When I have a bad day the following pattern usually develops:

1. Initially I tighten up and play less aggressive. This results in failing to push marginal +EV situations and/or failing to make raises that I would otherwise make which will often result in players staying in for the right price and hitting what you want to say is a "miracle" card. At the time I won't admit to myself that it wasn't a miracle and that my mistake cost me the pot.

2. The next stage of the deterioration in my play will be "I am paying him off simply because they can't hit their hand everytime against me". If the call down was based on pot odds, player profiles, etc. that would be different. But the "it just isn't possible that they hit the flop this often" call down is based on frustration and not winning poker strategies.

3. Finally . . . even "Mr. I Play 1 More Hand Than A Dead Man" will start taking shots at me because they know that I am running bad.

For all of these reasons, I have a daily stop loss of $2,500. It has only come into play 3 or 4 times in the last couple of years (unfortunately 2 of them have been in the past week).

I will usually take at least a half day off and replay several times the hands that I believe I might have misplayed from the day before.

I also find that when I have a couple of losing sessions I will spend $$$ that I otherwise wouldn't have spent. I am not talking about ridiculous amounts. But I will splurge on something for myself or the family that I otherwise would probably have waited on. I am sure there is some subconscious reason I do this. I just haven't figured it out yet . . . lol.

It is tough to make myself put in the hours after a loss. But when I think of it in terms of "No Play No Pay", I force myself to sit back down at the puter and just go to war again. But I refuse to let myself track whether I am ahead or behind while playing the next day. This seems to help me better focus on the process and not the results.

[ohgeetee]

In something like roulette or blackjack I don't think I'd factor in a stoploss, but poker is much more mental. If you are on a huge downswing, theres a good chance your decisionmaking will effect it exponentially unless you're an emotional rock.

In [censored] like roulette and blackjack, its just chance, and all of your decisions are automatic.

[VeryTnA]

[ QUOTE ]
Kligons are more passive in bed than her after a big poker win.


[/ QUOTE ] Your wife is a beautiful woman. You are a lucky man!

Back to cards.....I firmly beleive in having a stop loss. Sometimes its not your day. Sometimes you don't play well. Sometimes you are out played. Sometimes you are burned out. Sometimes etc etc. You need a getting off place.

I like to set my stop limit low. I'll quit playing, reboot the computer, take a shower, put on my next luckiest shirt and then go back at it. I find this system works best when some good sex is added along the way. When I get back to the game its a whole new day. If I hit my stop limit a second time I quit.

THERE IS ONE CATCH. Its takes tons of discpline to quit when you feel you are the best player at the table. Just because you are at a table full inside straight hitting fools doesn't mean you will get the chance to beat them. No matter how bad they play sometimes you can't beat them.

[TimM]

[ QUOTE ]
It is tough to make myself put in the hours after a loss.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am the opposite. After a good day I want to savor it for a while. After a loss I can't wait to jump back in and turn it around. I had to limit myself to three hours a day at most, because sometimes I'd play way too long, especially when stuck.

[Cptkernow]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It is tough to make myself put in the hours after a loss.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am the opposite. After a good day I want to savor it for a while. After a loss I can't wait to jump back in and turn it around. I had to limit myself to three hours a day at most, because sometimes I'd play way too long, especially when stuck.

[/ QUOTE ]

Im the same. After ive got x amount up I normaly find myself getting a feck work attitude, lets go have fun. If I then do make my self sit down to play I find myself prone to gambling it up a bit more as I feel "immune" to the loses.