Stuck at small stakes? (cross-posted at Dr. Al's suggestion)

[BigBaitsim (milo)]

My frustration is with the $$ end of poker. I enjoy the game a great deal, and am beating the $2/4 online for about 3.3BB/100 hands, over the course of 40K hands. I'd like for the game to be a bit more profitable, but I'm getting spanked at higher levels (3/6 and 5/10). I don't feel like I'm playing poorly, but I'm also not winning (only 4K hands of 3/6 and 5/10 so far). Now I'm getting impatient, and have fallen into a pattern of earning money at the 2/4, and losing it at 3/6 and 5/10. Is there a point at which I just accept that I'm a low-limit player and stay there?


-Originally posted in Psychology forum

[Lost Wages]

only 4K hands of 3/6 and 5/10 so far

Surely you have read this forum enough to know that 4k hands is not enough to draw any conclusions about your long term win rate. You are beating 2/4 handily. OK, assuming that your bankroll is >$1800, just start playing 3/6. Forget about 2/4 and 5/10. If your bankroll drops below $1000, then go back to 2/4. Otherwise, stay at 3/6 until you have a decent win rate and the bankroll to play 5/10. Best of luck.

Lost Wages

P.S. it's either an angel mouse or a vagina

[bicyclekick]

Maybe you're not making changes with the blind structure of 3/6. You should hardly ever be completing your sb (like 20%) at 3/6.

The party 5/10 game isn't an easy game at all. I still think the 15 game is easier. I only played 4000 hands of 5/10 and I was about even money, yet after 19000 hands I'm doing pretty well at the 15.

[Joe826]

IMO the best way to learn is to play. You don't have to accept that you're a 2/4 player for life unless you want to be, which it sounds like you don't. The games are different, but really aren't THAT much harder (even 5/10, although it is tough at times). I would suggest just that you just keep plugging away, until you feel comfortable in the higher limits. One suggestion though, I would stick with 3/6 for now. It's a different game than both 5/10 and 2/4, you should learn one limit at a time. Post hands too. GL

[arkady]

Any thoughts or ideas on how why this phenoma is happening? Have you tried 10/20 at all? Have you tried 5/10 at other sites or just party? I'd like to hear more thoughts from you regarding this particular topic.

[Bob T.]

Moving up is always tough. You are winning enough at 2-4 that you should certainly be able to survive at 3-6. I would guess that some combination of the more aggressive 3-6 game, the higher stakes and higher swings, and just running bad over your 4K hands at the higher limits has made the transition tough.

I suspect that one day soon, you will try playing 3-6, and have a good session, and then maybe follow it up with 3 or 4 more, and suddenly, you will be primarily a 3-6 player.

One thing that makes moving up harder, is the size of the swings. You have to remember that you are playing for Big Bets, and not dollars. Right now, I am trying to make the transition from 5-10 to 10-20, and one day I was playing, and after a couple of hours I looked, and saw that I was $105 ahead. I thought 'well, that's a nice win' but it really is one hand ahead of breaking even. I just hadn't really adjusted to the idea that $100 is only 5 big bets, so being $100 ahead or behind is just one contested hand from being even. Similarly, you might find yourself in what would be a fairly deep hole at 2-4, but it is a 50% smaller hole at 3-6, and if you react because you are SO FAR behind, you might make mistakes that you shouldn't because you play a little desparately.

Good luck,
play well,

Bob T.

[arkady]

You trying out the 10/20 at UB?

[joker122]

Just keep playing, if you have the bankroll. I played 20k hands at party 3/6 at break even before I attainted a decent winrate.

[Joe826]

I've never played 15/30, so I can only speculate. But I imagine it has something to do with the shorthanded tables dominating 5/10 and 10/20, along with the fact that 15/30 is pretty much the highest stakes there are on PP (I know there are 30/60 tables, but they really aren't practical for the rich dudes that just wanna have some fun).

[bicyclekick]

I think one thing I will say is that it seems like the same bunch of dumbasses playing quite a bit...what I mean by that is that by using pokertracker I have notes on over half the table and that allows me to make infinately better decisions. There also seems to be a lot of calling 2 cold in 15/30 that isn't in 5/10. The 5/10 flop % of others was 28% when I played, it's 30 at the 15 game. I think the bigger SB helps that.

The notes on good players help too, because many of them are multitablers, and can fold a hand, so it's not too hard to pick on them at times, either.

The 5/10 game seemed just kinda wierd. I never knew where I was at and if I should just keep betting when I missed the flop and pf raised, or what to do. My style just doesn't beat that game very well.

I guess I do well with more aggressive players, too.

I'm curious if you have any other thoughts. Watch teh 15 game sometime for awhile, you'll be suprised, it's a pretty soft game I htink.