Stars 10+1 Rebuy hand review.

aesic · #1 07-09-2004, 06:40 AM

Stars afternoon 10+1 Rebuy Tournament (not the 20k).

~400 entered, I was knocked out ~100. I believe I was a smaller than the average stack.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t600 (9 handed) converter

Hero (t12641)
Button (t20245)
SB (t19485)
BB (t6150)
UTG (t29025)
UTG+1 (t36970)
MP1 (t25352)
MP2 (t49180)
MP3 (t20801)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, Hero raises to t2000, Button raises to t3400, SB folds, BB folds, Hero raises to t12591, Button calls t9191.

Flop: (t25532) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)

Turn: (t25532) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)

River: (t25532) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: t25532

Hero shows Jc Jh (one pair, jacks).
Button shows Qc Kc (one pair, queens).
Outcome: Button wins t25532.

My read on the button was that he was pretty tight, but so was I (we played about the same number of hands, which is very few). As CO, I can see how he might think I was stealing. He min raised instantly after my raise. I thought he might have Ax and was trying make me fold my steal or slow me down. However, with JJ, I thought I would at worst be a coin flip, but more importantly, I thought that he would fold to my all in reraise. As you can see, he ended up calling w/ his KQ and hit. Should I have just called his reraise, or was this the right play? I wasn't quite sure what to make of his instant reraise.

-aesic

Poker Jon · #2 07-09-2004, 11:12 AM

Aesic,

This is the perfect time to utilise the stop and go strategy.

His re-raise indicates to you that there is no way he is laying this hand down preflop as it only costing him an extra T5000 for a total approx T24,000k pot.

If you call his initial re-raise, and then when the ace flops push the rest of your chips in I say he would fold a lot more often than he would call.

Absolutely ideal time for the Stop and Go Strategy IMO.

Interested to see what the others think in this situation.

Cheers

Jon

SossMan · #3 07-09-2004, 11:59 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Aesic,

This is the perfect time to utilise the stop and go strategy.

His re-raise indicates to you that there is no way he is laying this hand down preflop as it only costing him an extra T5000 for a total approx T24,000k pot.

If you call his initial re-raise, and then when the ace flops push the rest of your chips in I say he would fold a lot more often than he would call.

Absolutely ideal time for the Stop and Go Strategy IMO.

Interested to see what the others think in this situation.

Cheers

Jon

[/ QUOTE ]

Not the time for the stop and go. You should use the stop and go from the blinds when you have less than about 10x and your opponent raises less than 3x and you don't think he will fold preflop, but may fold to a 7x flop bet if he whiffs.
You don't use it in LP when you still have plenty of preflop folding equity. Your math is a little off. The original raiser was not PC'd preflop since he still had to call about T9k into a T13k pot. He's only getting about 1.4:1 and it would be very easy for him to be dominated. As it turns out, he was a coin flip, but had no way of knowing that.
I think the poster played it perfectly. I think enough players will lay down the KQs to the all in bet to make it profitable.

aesic · #4 07-09-2004, 06:17 PM

Not a 100% sure on what the stop-n-go strategy is, but I'm assuming its calling a raise, then going all in on the flop whether it hits you or not. Reading TPFAP right now, so if its in there, I haven't gotten to it yet.

I'm glad that sossman thinks I made the right move, any other thoughts (semi-bump)?

-aesic

tripdad · #5 07-09-2004, 06:23 PM

i like going all-in preflop here, too. it takes a special kind of idiot to call you there w/KQ.

cheers!

SossMan · #6 07-09-2004, 06:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Not a 100% sure on what the stop-n-go strategy is, but I'm assuming its calling a raise, then going all in on the flop whether it hits you or not. Reading TPFAP right now, so if its in there, I haven't gotten to it yet.

I'm glad that sossman thinks I made the right move, any other thoughts (semi-bump)?

-aesic

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's a copy of a post I made a couple weeks ago about stop and go's:
The Stop and Go works best with a pocket pair less than 9's. Here's why. First off, stack sizes are everything here. It really is only a good play if your stack size is between about 6x and 12x (approximate). The general rule of thumb is that you should go all in if you have less than 10x BB preflop. Generally, at the later stages in the tourney, you are trying to win pots without a showdown. You don't really want to run out the cards on a coin flip if you can avoid it.
So, what you can do is flat call the 2x or 3x raise and go all in on any flop.
However, by calling the raise, you are virtually committing yourself to go all in on ANY flop...no matter how scary it looks. (If you flop a set or better, you may want to slowplay, but that's for another thread)

You are banking on the fact that he will either fold a pocket pair larger than yours (but smaller than the overcards on the board) or he will fold his overcards to your pair, or he may even fold 2nd pair or third pair, or maybe even fold and Open ender. The last two are doubtful, but you never know.
There are some criteria that have to be met for a stopngo to be the right move:

1. Your stack size needs to be between 6x and 12x. If he does a 3x raise you should have at least 8x, if he does a 2x raise, a 6x stack should be fine. If he does a 4x-5x raise, you should need about 12x. These are approx., but you should be thinking along the lines of "How big will my flop bet be in relation to the pot". The closer it is to pot sized, the better.

2. His stack should be larger than yours, but not by much. You need to have enough to damage his stack if he calls. Don't do a stop and go vs. a very large or very small stack. Maybe about 150% of your stack is ideal.

3. You should be in one of the blinds. You shouldn't be limping from EP w/ a small pair (all in / fold). You shouldn't be calling raises from MP with so many to act behind you. You should just make the first raise if folded to you in LP. It works uniquely well in the blinds because you close the action preflop and open it postflop. Remember, you put him to the hard decision.

The reason it's used with a small pair is that you limit the opponent from seeing the turn and river cards by betting incrementally. You don't give him proper odds to chase the overcards or a flush draw or a st8 draw on the flop. If you go all in preflop with a small pair, he is correct to call w/ just about any overcards. But if you smooth call, then push on any flop, you allow him to make a mistake if he calls you.