KK against a decent opponent

sublime · #1 07-07-2004, 09:26 PM

UTG/UTG+1 are typical LL players
Button seems pretty decent from what I have seen.

Paradise Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 3 folds, Hero raises, Button 3-bets, 2 folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero caps, Button calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (17.50 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, Button calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds.

Turn: (10.25 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)

UTG checks, hero bets , button raises......

Thoughts?

JohnShaft · #2 07-07-2004, 09:35 PM

I ain't folding. I'm not fond of re-raising, as if he knows anything about you he'll know you're on an overpair, and he can cap with impunity if he has AA and know he isn't beat.

So I call, call.

He could easily have an underpair here so I don't think you can really think about folding in a pot this large.
So it's a pretty automatic call down for me.

sublime · #3 07-07-2004, 09:39 PM

He could easily have an underpair here so I don't think you can really think about folding in a pot this large.

Folding didnt even enter my mind, what did enter my mind were the odds that he had QQ/JJ/TT. Only thing is, he probably would have raised these on the flop.

JohnShaft · #4 07-07-2004, 09:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Folding didnt even enter my mind, what did enter my mind were the odds that he had QQ/JJ/TT.

[/ QUOTE ]
Given this, and if you don't think he will cap with AA then sure a re-raise looks fine. (I'm assuming UTG folded btw.]

[ QUOTE ]
Only thing is, he probably would have raised these on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]
Weighing up this I still think it's pretty close.
Thing is you have so narrowed down your hand by raise/capping preflop that you might as well show him your cards. (And particularly because you have the 'worst capping hand')

joker122 · #5 07-07-2004, 09:45 PM

Easy call down . Hands that beat you: 99, AA. Hands you beat: QQ-TT. You have the edge here in the long run.

spamuell · #6 07-07-2004, 10:06 PM

Easy call down . Hands that beat you: 99, AA. Hands you beat: QQ-TT. You have the edge here in the long run.

This is assuming that his opponent is equally likely to have each of these hands, which he isn't. Firstly, from a purely Bayesian point of view, there are less combinations of 99.

More importantly, I really can't imagine a decent playing not raising TT or JJ on this flop or even QQ. Really looks like AA or the other KK (although it's possible it's QQ or he's trying to buy a free showdown with AK).

sublime · #7 07-07-2004, 10:13 PM

More importantly, I really can't imagine a decent playing not raising TT or JJ on this flop or even QQ. Really looks like AA or the other KK.

My thoughs exactly, only problem was I though of it AFTER the hand. When faced with decisions like this in the past I have gone into call down mode.

In this situation UTG folded and I re-raised the button and UTG folded. Button capped me (all in for $3.60) and the river was a Q.

Button turns over AA and HHIG. Now immediatly after playing this hand I realized that if I had read the hand backwards and been more focused on villians play I would/should have called down.

EDIT: for clarity
yet another hand/lesson in my progression as a player

JohnShaft · #8 07-07-2004, 10:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
In this situation I re-raised the button and UTG folded. Button capped me (all in for $3.60) and the river was a Q.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hold on though. UTG called his initial Raise then? And Button was almost allin anyway?

Clear Re-Raise if that's the situation.

sublime · #9 07-07-2004, 10:19 PM

Hold on though. UTG called his initial Raise then? And Button was almost allin anyway?

Sorry. I typed the action backwards. UTG folded and I reraised.

JohnShaft · #10 07-07-2004, 10:22 PM

Still as the Button is allin just before his 4th bet (Turn on) I don't think there's a whole lot to beat yourself up about here. Sure you'd expect him to raise the flop, but he still might wait with something like QQ.
As it was your Re-Raise cost you 3/4 BB, it would normally have cost you 2 BB. So it's much less bad than you make it sound, even if you were *very* confident he had AA.