Big Pocket Pair Laydowns

mikeyKay · #1 07-07-2004, 12:33 PM

Here are 2 hands where i mucked some big pocket pairs...when i played them, it felt like the right thing to do...but now i feel like i should have maybe stayed around a bit more or played them more aggressively. tell me what you think.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero raises, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero checks.

With 3 others in, i think that betting this might be throwing away money, but a bet on the flop is probably correct, and seeing any type of resistance would result in folding. I was planning on doing something on the turn if no diamonds fell and it was getting checked again.

Turn: (4.25 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB bets, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero folds.

weak tight?

River: (7.25 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 9.25 BB
Main Pot: 9.25 BB, between BB and UTG+1. > Pot won by BB (9.25 BB).

Results in white below: 
BB shows Ah Ks (one pair, aces).
UTG+1 shows Qs Kd (one pair, queens).
Outcome: BB wins 9.25 BB. 

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, Hero raises, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

standard

Turn: (6.25 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, BB raises, UTG+1 calls, Hero folds.

hmmmm a check raise, and then a cold call...something felt fishy, i was thinking a straight of some sort...or something that would beat my top pair, so i got out...weak tight again?

River: (11.25 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, UTG+1 raises, BB calls.

Final Pot: 15.25 BB
Main Pot: 15.25 BB, between BB and UTG+1. > Pot won by UTG+1 (15.25 BB).

Results in white below: 
BB shows 7c 7h (three of a kind, sevens).
UTG+1 shows Td 9c (straight, king high).
Outcome: UTG+1 wins 15.25 BB. 

Even though these were the right decisions for these specific cases, are these hands played well for the long run?

thanks

-mike

mikeyKay · #2 07-07-2004, 08:52 PM

no comments?? somebody help me out.

-mike

joker122 · #3 07-07-2004, 09:16 PM

Hand 1 is tough. If you bet the flop you're getting callers...whether it be by an ace or a diamond/straight draw. So you won't really know where you're at in the hand
(unless the turn is a diamond, in which case there is no way you have the best hand). On the other hand, if you check the flop you have given a free card to worse hands and you still won't know where you're at because a turn bet by someone could mean a Q or T or a good diamond. I think I'd bet the flop (trying to pick up the pot right there, but intending to fold to a CR), check behind on the turn and see what develops on the river...probably not calling a bet though. I think checking this flop and giving up on the hand is ok too.

Hand 2, I think you made an awesome laydown. As I was reading the hand 77 immediately jumped out at me after he checkraised. His play screams set...and he'd 3bet preflop with JJ or KK. You really played this one well.

L0QTiS · #4 07-07-2004, 09:55 PM

Hand 1:
With no prior reads, I'd probably bet the flop. If I lost a few more (folded) on the turn I'd probably bet again, but if all four stayed, check. fold to c/r - river: check through

Hand 2:

Great read, but "in general" I think I'd call one more bet after you get raised and not like it - perhaps against two known solid opponents.. fold...

On the River facing two bets I think you can safely release the hand.

I'd be interested in others opinions here.

Disclaimer: I currently play in the micro limits but have played up to 5/10 in the past.

Gravy (Gravy Smoothie) · #5 07-07-2004, 11:25 PM

With hand one, unless I get a free turn card and it's a K, I'm mucking to any bet faster than you can say [censored] on a stick. Remember that the monotone flop scares singleton A's as much as it scares you, but they're probably not folding unless the four-flush hits, in which case you're dead anyway.

Hand 2 I think you should call the checkraise because there is a distinct possiblity your opponent holds a weaker pair or two pair, in which case you have outs against them. However, I have a tough time releasing overpairs on relatively uncoordinated boards.

chim17 · #6 07-08-2004, 12:22 AM

I fold hand 1 just as you did.

Hand 2 I think I would call on the turn, but fold to 2 on the river. Call 1 on the river.

I've seen the turn C/R with top pair, although I think I need to start respecting the turn c/r more.