micro starting hands..

[kgrad5]

ive been reading hepfap section on loose games and they are putting a lot more value on hands like k 7 suited, something which i would never play even in micro, am i missing out on money by folding these hands? i play stars usually .5/.10 and sometimes .25/.50 with a really really small bankroll .. comments appreciated

[Matty]

I'm still in the early learning stages, so I have to play slightly tighter preflop than HEPFAP standards.

However, If there are 4 limpers to me I'll almost always play Kxs.

I've gotten K7s 64 times in the last month, won with it 12.5% of the time, and made a total of $6.50 with it.

[citizenkn]

In loose, passive games this can be true. I'll play suited Kx, but only on or near the button, and never to a raise. As you get closer to the button, you can play a lot more hands with a bunch of limpers in the pot. With 4 or more people calling before me, I regularly play all kinds of suited connectors, suited one gappers, and even suited two gappers (J-8s, Q-9s). But when I do, I'm always looking to flop flush and straight draws. Flopping top pair with these hands, I look for a reason to get out...

[Greg J]

You might think this conservative, but I also play the nanolimits, recently moving 50$ to pokerstars (at the .05/.1 tables), and I don't touch KXs unless I'm in a blind (ie dont have to play full price), or if I'm on the button or CO with 6 or 7 callers (which is not unheard of at this level) AND the blind players are LAP. I'm not convinced that loosening playing requirements too much is a good proposition. I leave hands like 97s and T8s alone in late position. Most players limp in with this, and I think passing on this and playing only decent hands gives you an advantage.

That being said, certain types of hands -- pocket pairs and suited connectors and AXs -- have more value. Limping in with 55 in early postition might be good if there is little preflop raising. But if you dont make a set or an OESD, be ready to drop it on the flop.

How is the play at the .25/.5 tables?

EDIT:
[ QUOTE ]
I've gotten K7s 64 times in the last month, won with it 12.5% of the time, and made a total of $6.50 with it.

[/ QUOTE ]

on the other hand it's hard to argue with results [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[kgrad5]

.25/.50 play is a LOT tighter then the .5/.10 table, people generally play decently, although you will be hard pressed to find someone who doesnt call with Ax every hand, its usually loose weak with a lot of limpers, so pretty good tables with a lot of bad beats

[RED_RAIN]

4 limpers to you, you sit on Button or CO, you COULD. Make sure that you know how to drop top pair since if you play Kx (x being less than 7) you are going to be losing a lot of money calling down top pair kings. You are pretty much purely playing for 2 pairs and flush draws. I think this concept can be a play added later rather than before when you feel you have a good grasp of post flop play and when top pair is no good.

[Vern]

I have found that HEPFAP applies to high levels, athough online it is useful at the lower levels, it is just not the best. The best book for micro-limit play I have found it Lee Jone's "Winning Low Limit Hold'em" and I am waiting patiently, honestly it is patiently, for Ed's new book which will likely be even more thorough for these low limit games. As for Kxs, I will play K9s or K8s from MP2 with 3 limpters and Kxs in the CO or Button with 3 limpers. Using PT K7s-K2s in the CO or BTN with 4 players seeing the flop for no raise I am +.17 BB/Hand with 109 hands that match that criteria. You have to play it just like Axs, if you hit top pair, you are unlikely to prevail by continuing. The value of the hand is in two pair or the flush, anything less is not strong enough to continue for bets. That was a major leak in my game until I spent time with PT analyzing my starting hand results and their play.

[dave44]

[ QUOTE ]
You have to play it just like Axs, if you hit top pair, you are unlikely to prevail by continuing. The value of the hand is in two pair or the flush, anything less is not strong enough to continue for bets.

[/ QUOTE ]

How can you be unlikely to prevail with top pair? I've read many posts on this board advising aggresive play in these situations.

Why would you play any hand looking to hit 2 pairs?

[Vern]

K2s is of little value when you hit a king against a large field. You want a large field with this hand to give you the odds to hit your flush draw and get paid off, two pair is just a nice side opportunity. When you hit top pair, you are more likely outkicked by anyone willing to put money in the pot with you and when you do win, it is against a lower pair that will be unwilling to put money in. In short, lose a big pot, win a small pot. Properly playing these for top pair value on the flop and beyond must be done delicately and I see more profit in folding to any action. I may bet the flop with position if checked to me, but I will not call bets/raises just because I have top pair. I will check through the turn and call one on the river with top pair if it gets that far, but it rarely does.

[Ron]

Hi, nice reply, If you want to find out if your top pr is any good put a raise in and see if anyone call you. Who would? Top pr with a decent kicker, yep! So you lose a bet or win a very small pot. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] When playing Kxs and the K hits check and fold to early action and possible bet in late postion. [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] but you will not make much with these hands. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]