"Dont slowplay a straight" but I do it anyway

[UATrewqaz]

Raise and let the idiots surprise you with what they call you with.

[JerseyTom]

[ QUOTE ]
Raise and let the idiots surprise you with what they call you with.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right. They already coldcalled preflop. Give them the opportunity (nay, privilege) to piss even more money away now that their JTo has flopped bottom two pair... or their Q9o made TPWK and a draw to the ass-end of a straight.


Tom

[bozlax]

I really don't see any danger in giving a cheap card, here. Two-pair isn't going to fold to a raise, anyway, nor is an OESD. No flush, full house is a longshot, and you've got the nut straight. Give the card, then raise anything on the turn.

That said, if one of the players behind you raises and everybody stays in, you should 3-bet, or cap if UTG 3-bets.

Edit: Please excuse my inexplicable case of FPS. Raise.

[nickg1532]

not that you haven't been told this enough yet but i raise.
1) you might be up against two pair (or a less likely set) and can go to war here.
2)one pair hands, even a pair of tens, will call
3)straight draws will call (even gutshots ie. lone ace)
4)sometimes worse hands will call (ie. the guy with the 84o, he has a straight draw right?)
5)not that anyone is paying attention, but if they are, waiting until the turn is suspicious

[Saint_D]

So what do you do on the other end of a flop like this against the stop and go?

Live 4/8 at Tulalip. players are pretty bad (stars nano limit players are better). Villian in this hand is above average for the table and has a large stack of chips. He is seeing at least 50% of the flops and is one of only two other people at the table to ever PFR besides me.

I have about $200 in front of me and villain has about $400, but as far as I know there is a betting limit even HU.

Villain has seen me raise from UTG and fold the entire table. I tell people this is my patented UTG blind stealing technique.

Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

UTG Raises, table folds to Hero, Hero 3 bets, blinds fold, UTG calls.

<font color="blue">Villain is paying attention to my UTG raises. I showed an ATo on a previous UTG raise. I suspect villian is most likely raising unsuited broadway cards. Calling my 3 bet make me more confident of that. </font>

Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG checks, Hero Bets, UTG calls.

<font color="blue">I have 2 pair and he may be calling to fill up the strait.</font>

Turn: 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG checks, Hero Bets, UTG raises, Hero?

<font color="blue">Crap. He flopped the strait. I am now pretty sure he raised UTG with KJ. What now? I have a strong made hand, but I am 95% sure I am up against the strait. 4 outs to the boat. I assume that there is a 4 bet limit even HU. </font>

Whats the move?

[deception5]

[ QUOTE ]
I suspect villian is most likely raising unsuited broadway cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
He is seeing at least 50% of the flops and is one of only two other people at the table to ever PFR besides me.


[/ QUOTE ]

You could be up against KJ/AT/AQ/AK/TT/QQ/AA/QT or worse, no?

In the worse case (he's doing this with a legimate hand):

Behind:

KJ - 16 combinations
TT - 3 combinations
AA - 1 combination
QQ - 1 combination

Ahead:

AT - 6 combinations
AK - 8 combinations
QT - 6 combinations

Split:

AQ - 4 combinations

If you think he'd cap AA/QQ/AK then that leaves 19 you are behind, 12 you're ahead of and 4 you are splitting with. (If not then it's 21/20/4). When you factor in the 10% chance of improving against KJ/TT and the possibility that he is trying to semi-bluff KK/JJ or worse because he knows you are a thinking player who may fold I think you have to call down here.

The bet limit doesn't matter too much unless you're planning to go 4 bets here...

[aces_dad]

I'm thinking he mentioned the bet limit to estimate potential bets on the river if he improves as the turn is at most a call as you mention.

Though if a boat is possible I don't see a thinking player going more than 4 bets anyway, if that much, on the river with the nut straight.

[deception5]

[ QUOTE ]
Though if a boat is possible I don't see a thinking player going more than 4 bets anyway, if that much, on the river with the nut straight.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly, although we may be able to get a lot from QQ if an A comes on the river or TT if an A or Q come on the river (or lose a lot to AA if a Q comes on the river).

[Fryguy]

Now if villian raises this flop instead of slowplays it, can you really put him on a straight right away? He could easily have AT, AK, QT. You have top 2-pair and I can't see not at least calling this, probably re-raising here. By him slowplaying this straight he's giving up money. I think this is the epitome of "dont' slowplay a straight."

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
1) you might be up against two pair (or a less likely set) and can go to war here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wouldn't you be better off going to war on the turn? Say it goes like this:

Flop: (11.50 SB) J, Q, T (5 players)
UTG bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero raises, MP3 folds, CO calls, UTG 3-bets, UTG+1 folds, Hero ?

You capping, not caring whether CO stays in, or calling, hoping to keep CO and go to war on a turn blank?