qq from party poker level 1

[stripsqueez]

i would of made a serious raise pre-flop

i auto fold after this flop action

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[zaphod]

Thank you all for your usefull comments.

I have a few more questions:

-What is you standard raise at level 1:
Is 4xBB or 5x BB better ? I guess the answer migth be diffrent at the 50 dollar level where you start with 1000 chips?
[ QUOTE ]

The pre-flop raise is good for his opponents. It allows them to profitably call with small pairs and suited connectors (assuming they play well post-flop).

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Is calling a 4xbb cal ok with suited connectors and small pairs? My thinking has been that this is only waisting chips at the early levels(but maybee then it is my postflop play that is not good enough..)
This was also the hands that i was afraid of after the flop:
tt,99,77 and T9 suited.
I thougth that somebody with kings or aces world probably have raised preflop, so i really did not fear those hands.

As for what my opponents had:

The guy who went in had KJ off(same thing as for your friende recoil..)!!, and the guy calling the all in had pocket 7.

[Sam T.]

I agree with the folks that at this point in the tournament you need to put in a bigger raise PF. In rounds 1 and two, I think less about multiples of BB than percentage of stacks because that's how the other players think. (I also play UB MT tournaments that have 1500 starting stacks, and blinds at 5-10. If you think you're goint to get anyone out with a t30 bet, think again.) In this situation, if I'm first in, I'd go 75-80.

Good fold on the flop. One all-in you can think for a moment if he might be on a draw. Two, it's muck-a-luck-luck.

[Phil Van Sexton]

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Is calling a 4xbb bet ok with suited connectors and small pairs?

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As stated earlier, it's more about the % of your stack and % of your opponent's stack. If I start with 1000 and blinds are 10/15 and someone raises to 75, I'm going to call with most pocket pairs (if there are few people behind that might re-raise).

I've heard people say that they'll call up to 10% of their stack for a chance to flop a set and break someone. I don't if this is a standard guideline or not.

Connectors are much trickier since you usually only flop a draw at best. Now you'll have to call a bet on the flop or go for a semibluff. Either way, you will putting in more chips before completing your hand, so your effective odds are worse pre-flop. Hence, I wouldn't call more than 5% of my stack pre-flop with a suited connector, if I called at all.

[therock]

I don't like your post flop play at all. You bet 30% of your stack and fold to a raise/push. The raise/push was somewhat predictable considering the flop and number of players who saw it. If I'm betting 30% of my stack, I'm pot committed. I probably would have pushed the flop and took my chances, hoping to knock out anyone on a draw.

[floppy]

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Is calling a 4xbb bet ok with suited connectors and small pairs?

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As stated earlier, it's more about the % of your stack and % of your opponent's stack. If I start with 1000 and blinds are 10/15 and someone raises to 75, I'm going to call with most pocket pairs (if there are few people behind that might re-raise).

I've heard people say that they'll call up to 10% of their stack for a chance to flop a set and break someone. I don't if this is a standard guideline or not.

Connectors are much trickier since you usually only flop a draw at best. Now you'll have to call a bet on the flop or go for a semibluff. Either way, you will putting in more chips before completing your hand, so your effective odds are worse pre-flop. Hence, I wouldn't call more than 5% of my stack pre-flop with a suited connector, if I called at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

This 10%/5% rule sounds pretty reasonable. With that in mind, wouldn't you want to raise, say 12% of other people's stacks? But if you do that, don't you run into the problem of more all-in reraises as steal attempts?

BTW, noone seems to have noticed that zaphod didn't make a 4xBB bet, he made a 4xSB = 2xBB bet. I normally make a 3xBB bet (as I think most here do), which would have been 90 in this case, and just about 10% of the largest stacks.

[Phil Van Sexton]

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This 10%/5% rule sounds pretty reasonable. With that in mind, wouldn't you want to raise, say 12% of other people's stacks?

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This is exactly why I recommended that he raise to 100-125 with QQ in an earlier post.

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But if you do that, don't you run into the problem of more all-in reraises as steal attempts?

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I'm only going to do this with AA, KK, AK, or QQ. Therefore, I'm usually thrilled by reraises as steal attempts. Unfortunately, I don't see this often. When you raise this much on level 1, even the maniacs know not to bluff you (of course, this doesn't stop them from calling).


[ QUOTE ]
zaphod didn't make a 4xBB bet, he made a 4xSB = 2xBB bet

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Read the history again. Party's stupid hand history shows "15/30" as if this were a limit game. Look at where the blinds are posted and you will see that the BB was 15.

[bigredlemon]

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Stop minraising PF and you won't run into this problem (as much).

And, yes, since you let them both into the pot one of them has you beat often enough to fold here.

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Actually I say it will. In the last few times I re-raised 3xBB with QQ or KK, some guy called and re-raised all in on the flop. I called a few of the times. Once he turned over 8 4 for a straight!??? Once the guy hit trips with a 5 K kicker. Another time he had two low pairs.

It's tough because if an A pops it'll be hard to keep betting. If it doesn't pop, and everyone folds, you win a decent sized pot but nothing fantastic. If you get reraised all in, you in a tough spot and might be drawing dead. It makes me wonder whether rag-rag has better EV than a premium hand only because of the implied odds.

[zaphod]

Thanks again everybody for your comments.

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Quote:



This is exactly why I recommended that he raise to 100-125 with QQ in an earlier post.

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Is the 5-10% rule also used for tournaments? I thought this was mainly used in NL moneygame.

Another point: If you raise to 100-125 chips on level 1, how often will you get action from people that you want action from(ie not aces or kings)? I was very suprised that i got all that action when i raised to 60 chips. My estimate would be on average 1 caller, possibly two if the table is loose when i raise to 60..

I agree that my raise was to small, and i will now raise 75 chips(which is still 9% of my starting stack). I think raising to 100 or more will leave me too often with only the blinds. Comments?

[Phil Van Sexton]

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Is the 5-10% rule also used for tournaments? I thought this was mainly used in NL moneygame.

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First, I should say that the "5-10%" is how I play. I dont' know if this an official rule or not. If the side game stacks aren't too deep, I use it in both side games and the early levels of tournaments.

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Another point: If you raise to 100-125 chips on level 1, how often will you get action from people that you want action from(ie not aces or kings)?

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Very often, even at 30/3. Do you really think people are going to fold AQ, AJ, JJ, TT? Not at the tables I play at. Throw in 1 moron who calls with 76o and this is usually a good play. Try 100 and see what happens. I'd go as low as 90 if I'm in LP and its folded to me, but no lower than that.

If re-raised, you may well be up against AA or KK. However, because you bet 100+ and someone raised, you may be able to get away from your QQ. If you had bet 60, you will probably be stuck.