77 LP - Board Pairs Q's and K overcard

Sasnak · #1 04-18-2005, 02:41 PM

Villain is 12/5/1.8 over 60 hands.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, 2 folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (2.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets, MP1 folds, Hero raises, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+1 3-bets, Hero calls.

I figured he'd bet the flop if he had a K or Q and now he could be semi-bluffing the turn with a straight or BDFD since everyone else had checked up to this point. With 77 I also felt my 2 pair was possibly good so I raised here figuring if he might fold or check to me later. The reraise threw me so I called with the intention of calling on the river if a blank fell. 

River: (8.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB

bigalt · #2 04-18-2005, 02:48 PM

with the medium pair and the smallish pot, if you want to show it down i would think you'd want to do so cheaply.

i'd bet that flop, bet the turn, and check the river through, probably folding to aggression. with a 12% VPIP from EP I figure he's got either another pocket pair, or two cards 10+.

Womble · #3 04-18-2005, 02:49 PM

Hmmmmm, confusing hand. On the flop I doubt anyone has a K, so you are scared of a Q. I would probably bet here.

On the turn, how you played it was OK. It is a good bluffing opportunity but the 3bet screams he has something.

Definately check/fold the river. May be 8/1 but you only have a 7 kicker, not worth anything!

Not much help but this is interesting

tiltaholic · #4 04-18-2005, 02:55 PM

if you're going to get hostile with your underpair, you should bet the flop and give any queens a chance to fold.

on the turn it is more likely he just tripped up and isn't afraid of the king anymore. i wouldn't call the 3-bet. you have 0-2 outs.

mlb3zr · #5 04-18-2005, 03:03 PM

you're right that villain likely would have bet the flop w the K, but unless he's quite aggressive, he's not betting a Q into 4. unless you have a good read that villain consistently likes to bluff at these sorts of boards, I'm letting this one go on the turn. too many ways to be beat and not a lot of ways for the river to help.

Sasnak · #6 04-18-2005, 03:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
if you're going to get hostile with your underpair, you should bet the flop and give any queens a chance to fold.

on the turn it is more likely he just tripped up and isn't afraid of the king anymore. i wouldn't call the 3-bet. you have 0-2 outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wasn't planning on betting the 7's on the flop. When it was checked to me I decided to take a card off and hope to hit a 7.

When the turn got checked is when I decided to make a play. The reraise was bad for me but I decided to call it since I didn't want to lay down my 7's before seeing the river as I had come this far. Is that totally bad thinking on my part?

ajrenni · #7 04-18-2005, 03:24 PM

I'd give this up on the turn. He might have checked a queen since the king is on board. The pot is small, if you're behind you have little chance of winning, and if you're ahead there are a ton of cards that beat you.

tiltaholic · #8 04-18-2005, 03:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if you're going to get hostile with your underpair, you should bet the flop and give any queens a chance to fold.

on the turn it is more likely he just tripped up and isn't afraid of the king anymore. i wouldn't call the 3-bet. you have 0-2 outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wasn't planning on betting the 7's on the flop. When it was checked to me I decided to take a card off and hope to hit a 7.

When the turn got checked is when I decided to make a play. The reraise was bad for me but I decided to call it since I didn't want to lay down my 7's before seeing the river as I had come this far. Is that totally bad thinking on my part?

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah. whether or not it is correct to bet the flop i don't really know. it's a big field, and i doubt you're folding a queen holder.

anyway...the turn wasn't checked to you. it was bet. i know i fall into the thought pattern that i really want my sevens to be good, so i assume villian is bluffing. but really, the most likely thing is that he checked his pair of queens on the flop fearing a king, and then bet the turn. he is, after all a tight player (so far at least). i don't think a turn raise is good. for the same cost you could call and then call the river. he'll 3-bet you if you are completely screwed though, and thats why you should fold. the "well, i've come this far i might as well see the river" is a REALLY BAD THOUGHT PROCESS.

acceptable thoughts include but are not limited too:
(not that any of these apply to your specific situation)
-this guy is a maniac and could have any 2 cards
-i have pot odds to call
-i don't have pot odds to call but i can make up those bets on some likely river action

but NEVER - i might as well see the river....

@bsolute_luck · #9 04-18-2005, 04:32 PM

with no aggression preflop, i'm betting here. if you're not going to bet, yes the turn is a good bluff spot especially with a flush draw possible, so read-dependent the turn is debatable.

with 77, i'd want to see showdown cheap and call. as it played out, i'd check behind on the river too.