Passive Hand 30/60

theBruiser500 · #1 05-05-2005, 03:48 PM

It seems to me if there is ever a time to check the flop it is right here. On the turn I am afraid of a c/r. On the river I am afraid they will call me weak. Thoughts?

PokerStars 30/60 Hold'em (7 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 3 folds, Hero raises, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG calls.

Flop: (7 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (3.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks.

River: (3.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 3.50 BB

Jeffage · #2 05-05-2005, 03:51 PM

Yea I hate how you played this. Bet the flop. If you get called, you can consider checking the turn. I'd like to see where I'm at and you likely have 6 outs if played with.

Jeff

theBruiser500 · #3 05-05-2005, 03:54 PM

I know I don't need to win often for the flop bet to be profitable but what hands could they possibly have where they both fold? Also by checking I get a free card to hit somethign.

Jeffage · #4 05-05-2005, 03:59 PM

Betting may clear out a gutshot, etc. Something with something like Ace high may just fold. A bet can allow you to win the hand on the turn. A bet tells you where you're at in the hand so you're not in a guessing game. And yes, there is a slight chance you win on the flop.

Jeff

theBruiser500 · #5 05-05-2005, 04:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Betting may clear out a gutshot, etc. Something with something like Ace high may just fold. A bet can allow you to win the hand on the turn. A bet tells you where you're at in the hand so you're not in a guessing game. And yes, there is a slight chance you win on the flop.

Jeff

[/ QUOTE ]

You are throwing out a lot of standard reasons which don't really make sense here IMO. Gutshot: the only gutshot I can see that is folding is 64. "Bet can let you win on turn": Okay I bet the flop and now I need them to call not to raise, then what turn card could come that I am going to bet again on and win it?

"bet tells you where you're at so you're not in guessing games" what does that even mean in this context???

"slight chance win it on the flop": yeah if someone has A5 i can see them folding that, what other hands could they fold thouhg? I don't see many, they would both have to have ace rag and not pair up or hit a draw somewhere with that rag.

also there is the slight advantage to checking behing on flop that i pair up on turn where they would c/r me on flop.

Your Mom · #6 05-05-2005, 04:09 PM

I think always betting flops like these makes you predictable and way too easy to c/r. I don't mind a check here at all. You beat barely anything, can use a free card, and probably aren't folding the hands you do beat.

Nate tha' Great · #7 05-05-2005, 03:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I know I don't need to win often for the flop bet to be profitable but what hands could they possibly have where they both fold? Also by checking I get a free card to hit somethign.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hands like 55 and A4s won't like this board. Another KQ probably doesn't bother peeling. ;-)

Also, part of the function on the flop bet is to set up a profitable bet on the turn. For example, ATo probably will call the flop bet with its gutshot/overcard, but likely not the turn if you bet again and it doesn't improve.

theBruiser500 · #8 05-05-2005, 04:16 PM

Nate you always bet the flop in this situation? Sorry but a n00b question is coming up... you might just be describing a concept here (betting flop to set up profitable turn bet) that you don't always use, or don't use in this situation much...

If you are called in 2 spots I'm guessing you check behind turn all the time, if you are called in 1 spot, it seems like on the one hand most opponents would raise the flop with any draw or pair they are going with (needs defense on this board) so the turn bet would be profitable if they just call flop bet, but on the other hand these auto bets (auto bet flop, auto bet turn) just seem like hemoroging money. Rambling a bit here, but if you are called how often do you bet the turn?

I Play 2 Ski · #9 05-05-2005, 04:28 PM

I think if you bet the flop here, your most likely to get checked to on the turn. Now with that J hitting someone may check to you hoping to c/r and you would really like to see that river for free.

Nate tha' Great · #10 05-05-2005, 04:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Nate you always bet the flop in this situation? Sorry but a n00b question is coming up... you might just be describing a concept here (betting flop to set up profitable turn bet) that you don't always use, or don't use in this situation much...

[/ QUOTE ]

I probably just about always bet the flop against two opponents. The exceptions I guess are if my table image is extraordinarily poor, I'm up against opponents who will habitually check-raise with little-to-nothing, or perhaps if we're playing 3- or 4-handed and I've been overly relentless in previous hands, but 99/100 times I'm betting.

[ QUOTE ]
If you are called in 2 spots I'm guessing you check behind turn all the time, if you are called in 1 spot, it seems like on the one hand most opponents would raise the flop with any draw or pair they are going with (needs defense on this board) so the turn bet would be profitable if they just call flop bet, but on the other hand these auto bets (auto bet flop, auto bet turn) just seem like hemoroging money. Rambling a bit here, but if you are called how often do you bet the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd also usually bet the turn if they both called. The lone exception might be if a jack came.

I think it's important to bet the turn because a lot of hands like QJ, KJ, A9, AJ will peel one card on the flop with a gutshot but will fold without improving on the turn.