My WA/WB line!

bozlax · #1 10-14-2005, 03:04 PM

Ok, so, forget that I posted BB + dead...a complete brain-fart.

Read: Villan is sLAG over 30 hands (high 20s/15+/3), but he's been running g00t. I haven't seen him get out of line with defending, either. I've been playing a pretty good TAG game (18/12/1.4), maybe stealing a bit too much.

How's my line? Should I have bet this flop?

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $1.50.
3 folds, MP2 calls, 1 fold, Hero (poster) raises, Button 3-bets, 2 folds, MP2 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (9 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

River: (7.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB

MrWookie47 · #2 10-14-2005, 03:07 PM

I think you could almost check and fold this river. You're hoping for QQ. And TT. AT is a pretty remote possibility, buut non-zero, I suppose. Regardless, it takes a special kind of lag to bet that river with QQ on that board. If he bets, you're almost certainly losing.

milesdyson · #3 10-14-2005, 03:08 PM

god what a crappy flop. at first glance this is how i would play it. the only reason the river call is okay is because he might have AQ or ATs here. with his high aggression he may even bet QQ on the river.

btw that guy has vpip/pfr stats like me (not saying this positively means anything) - and if i saw you post your bb and dead and then raise an mp open limper, i would 3-bet ATs for sure, so we should allow it in his range.

edited to add: this isn't the best seat, either boz. just thought it worth mentioning.

bozlax · #4 10-14-2005, 03:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
this isn't the best seat, either boz. just thought it worth mentioning.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lucky for me I wasn't sitting in it. I was button with KK. But I thought "Hero" played an excellent WA/WB against a Villan who could be seen as a little too raise-happy preflop and aggro postflop. The only thing I might've done differently would be raise-call the river, but I'd probably chicken out and see the cheap showdown.

Oh, and FWIW there aren't any REALLY good seats at this table [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img], but we do have 3 players with VPIP over 35...bringing the table-average up to 23!

POKhER · #5 10-14-2005, 03:33 PM

Can someone please tell me how this is a good wa/wb?

WA/WB = X:X on the hands we win : hands we lose to no? Isnt this therefore WB WB WB!

(thats without knowing the result... which was a loss).

cold_cash · #6 10-14-2005, 03:46 PM

This is a unique hand.

I wouldn't exactly call it a way ahead/way behind deal though, in the 'classical' sense anyway.

We have a gut-shot that is likely to be good, so on the turn we have 10 outs to beat KJ. Add to that the fact that we might already be winning or chopping.

bozlax · #7 10-14-2005, 04:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Can someone please tell me how this is a good wa/wb?

WA/WB = X:X on the hands we win : hands we lose to no? Isnt this therefore WB WB WB!

(thats without knowing the result... which was a loss).

[/ QUOTE ]

What line would you have taken? You're right, as is Cash, this isn't necessarily a classic "WA/WB" (you have too many outs if you're behind, but I do think you're pretty close to X:X), but aren't you going to play it like it is? Villan (me) is about 50% looser than Hero...he's also pfr'ing about twice as much (Villan clearly recognizes this table is waaaaay tight, and is taking advantage of it). I think you can put Villan's range, preflop, to pp's down to about 99, suited aces down to about 9 or 8, unsuited broadway connectors, suited broadway cards, etc., and you can't really narrow it any on the flop without running the risk of costing yourself extra bets with a hand that you'd really like to at least see the river with.

Until the river (as somebody said, it would take a special kind of LAG to bet QQ on this river, not that I'm anything but a special kind of LAG [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]), you have no idea where you stand, and no way of cheaply figuring it out, so you check/call down...isn't that what WA/WB boils down to, after you strip off the stuff about how many outs each of you have, whether you're HU or not, and whether it's equal times your ahead and behind?

POKhER · #8 10-14-2005, 04:28 PM

i'd of bet the flop, when you raise(I asume you will raise me?) i fold the turn UI as i think im WB more than WA.

So calling down = -EV as the WB>WA

But as i say, i could be weak tight as im verging on the "Safe side" whilt i play party as thats whats winning me cash. Me previous style was overagressive.

istewart · #9 10-14-2005, 03:12 PM

Capping preflop seems like an option, but if he isn't defending much, maybe not.

Against this guy I don't mind your line all that much. I don't like folding if those numbers in any way reflect his play, and I feel like you're getting raised or 3-bet if you ever try to get crafty here.

lautzutao · #10 10-14-2005, 03:13 PM

This is almost the exact same hand I saw earlier in the week

Given that's the case, how often can we be ahead reasoning villians 3-bet prerequesites?

I wouldn't have bet this flop. As far as the rest of the hand...I'd check call all the way down too. But you're probably donating more often than not.