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#1
03-12-2005, 04:44 PM
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Rake Free Sites
this whole fiasco has made me realize how ridiculous rake is. another user mentioned paying close to 100k rake a year. that's absurd to play online poker. if i worked out my monthly average it would probably equate to 12k a year.
Are there currently any operating rake free sites? i will start playing there even if there's limited amounts of players. all of us need to make a move together against this capitalist system. 
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#2
03-12-2005, 04:48 PM
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Re: Rake Free Sites
Dutch Boyd arrived in living rooms around the country during ESPN's 2003 World Series of Poker. His poker career began four years before that, at age eighteen, when he started adding tournament wins to the list of accomplishments that already included a law degree. As an insightful youth in St. Louis he played guitar, enjoyed movies, and read avidly, first honing his card skills in games with his mother and brother.
After the 2003 WSOP, Dutch formed a crew of young poker players to attack the game collectively. Within one year they were competing with the world’s best, winning tournaments and traveling to high-stakes poker games throughout the United States. Dutch continues to play poker, advance the cause of “rakefree” cardrooms online, and has established a website of poker advice at ......
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#3
03-12-2005, 06:53 PM
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Re: Rake Free Sites
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#4
03-12-2005, 07:11 PM
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Re: Rake Free Sites
[ QUOTE ]
Dutch Boyd arrived in living rooms around the country during ESPN's 2003 World Series of Poker. His poker career began four years before that, at age eighteen, when he started adding tournament wins to the list of accomplishments that already included a law degree. As an insightful youth in St. Louis he played guitar, enjoyed movies, and read avidly, first honing his card skills in games with his mother and brother. After the 2003 WSOP, Dutch formed a crew of young poker players to attack the game collectively. Within one year they were competing with the world’s best, winning tournaments and traveling to high-stakes poker games throughout the United States. Dutch continues to play poker, advance the cause of “rakefree” cardrooms online, and has established a website of poker advice at ...... [/ QUOTE ] Also, if I'm not mistaken, Boyd is the same inidvidual who couldn't keep a poker room alive, when it was charging rake. So, logically, we can assume that when his room isn't charging rake, it will do quite well! [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
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#5
03-12-2005, 04:50 PM
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Re: Rake Free Sites
[ QUOTE ]
this whole fiasco has made me realize how ridiculous rake is. another user mentioned paying close to 100k rake a year. that's absurd to play online poker. if i worked out my monthly average it would probably equate to 12k a year. Are there currently any operating rake free sites? i will start playing there even if there's limited amounts of players. all of us need to make a move together against this capitalist system. [/ QUOTE ] Not to sound harsh, but... You worry about rake first, I will worry about my opponent first. If I can then work something out with the rake, so be it, but I want loose passive opponents who play poorly and only the big places have those. If a rake free/rake reduced site gets the masses of these players, you won't need to post about it here for 95% of the 2+2 crowd to move over. Opponents are just more important than rake. Vern
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#6
03-12-2005, 05:06 PM
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Re: Rake Free Sites
[ QUOTE ]
Not to sound harsh, but... You worry about rake first, I will worry about my opponent first. If I can then work something out with the rake, so be it, but I want loose passive opponents who play poorly and only the big places have those. If a rake free/rake reduced site gets the masses of these players, you won't need to post about it here for 95% of the 2+2 crowd to move over. Opponents are just more important than rake. Vern [/ QUOTE ] That is just stupid. The casinos in miami used to rake $2 and $1 jackpot on $10 pots, because they could and no one knew any better. Now not even the biggest fish would pay this . We need to use our power to lower rakes and incresse compition. Party rapes us worse than Tony Soprono would. I pay $5,000 a month in rake accourding to PT. I don't acctullay pay this because I always play under a bonus. Any one who would accutualy pay this money for a service thay cost the at most 10 a month per person is a sucker, pure and simple.
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#7
03-12-2005, 05:07 PM
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Re: Rake Free Sites
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Not to sound harsh, but... You worry about rake first, I will worry about my opponent first. If I can then work something out with the rake, so be it, but I want loose passive opponents who play poorly and only the big places have those. If a rake free/rake reduced site gets the masses of these players, you won't need to post about it here for 95% of the 2+2 crowd to move over. Opponents are just more important than rake. Vern [/ QUOTE ] That is just stupid. The casinos in miami used to rake $2 and $1 jackpot on $10 pots, because they could and no one knew any better. Now not even the biggest fish would pay this . We need to use our power to lower rakes and incresse compition. Party rapes us worse than Tony Soprono would. I pay $5,000 a month in rake accourding to PT. I don't acctullay pay this because I always play under a bonus. Any one who would accutualy pay this money for a service thay cost the at most 10 a month per person is a sucker, pure and simple. [/ QUOTE ] [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] It costs party less than 1 dollar per person per month.
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#8
03-12-2005, 05:09 PM
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Re: Rake Free Sites
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Not to sound harsh, but... You worry about rake first, I will worry about my opponent first. If I can then work something out with the rake, so be it, but I want loose passive opponents who play poorly and only the big places have those. If a rake free/rake reduced site gets the masses of these players, you won't need to post about it here for 95% of the 2+2 crowd to move over. Opponents are just more important than rake. Vern [/ QUOTE ] That is just stupid. The casinos in miami used to rake $2 and $1 jackpot on $10 pots, because they could and no one knew any better. Now not even the biggest fish would pay this . We need to use our power to lower rakes and incresse compition. Party rapes us worse than Tony Soprono would. I pay $5,000 a month in rake accourding to PT. I don't acctullay pay this because I always play under a bonus. Any one who would accutualy pay this money for a service thay cost the at most 10 a month per person is a sucker, pure and simple. [/ QUOTE ] What power do we have, "Hey all the good players are gonna leave so all your weak players won't lose as much to use, play more and make you more in rake!" I don't think if the entire 2+2 community left Party we would even be a blip on their radar, at least a negative one. If the rake gets to high to make a profit, as in your example, then yes, I move on, but if Party, after rake, is still the place I can make the most $/Hr, then that is the place I play. Sure I want the rake reduced, but the chances of that are slim and I don't see us as having any power to affect it. Vern
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#9
03-12-2005, 05:16 PM
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Re: Rake Free Sites
If all the winning players moved from party, the fish would follow. Note the fish think they are winning players, they want the best deals too. The fish wants lots of games and lots of players. 1 winning player has the usage of 5 fish.
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#10
03-12-2005, 09:41 PM
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Re: Rake Free Sites
[ QUOTE ]
If all the winning players moved from party, the fish would follow. Note the fish think they are winning players, they want the best deals too. The fish wants lots of games and lots of players. 1 winning player has the usage of 5 fish. [/ QUOTE ] By your figures, that means that about 16.7% of all players are winning players. So if all the winning players left Party and skins all at once, they would still have 83.3% of their clientele left; I don't think the fish are likely to notice that drop and start asking where the sharks went. In addition, these players would suddenly start doing better because the sharks are no longer around to punish them for their mistakes. The fish are much more impressed by bonuses than by rakeback, because as has been repeatedly pointed out, the fish don't understand rake. Party raised their rake last year, and as far as I can tell, they haven't suffered for it. The increase in $/hand swamped any loss of customers. The only way a rake-free site could operate is by charging a periodic subscription fee (say, monthly) or by charging a fee each time a player sits at a table (I don't think advertising is likely to work, because it would require that people intent on playing would take time out and click on links or some such). I strongly suspect that most people aren't likely to want to pay up front, when they can play for "free" elsewhere. Only the player who wins a pot pays the rake, as far as they're concerned, and when they win it, it doesn't bother them to win only $46 instead of the full $50. -Mike
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Hybrid Mode
