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#102
10-08-2004, 12:57 AM
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Re: Am I Going to Burn in Hell?
I'm skipping ahead. So if the thread's moved on, I apologize in advance.
Sundevil (& Felson), I'm not a Christian. I don't even believe in God. But for what it's worth, the power and vision of Jesus' message of forgiveness - that it can't be earned, but that it's freely given - is self-evident. To me, at least. So if you thought that couldn't be understood by a non-Christian, you're wrong. So far (of what I've read), peoples' response to that reminds me of the Pharisees' nit-picking over grains of wheat on Sunday. [ QUOTE ] *as a side note- I'm sure that some of you will stop taking me seriously as a poster because of my views on life/God. I think that is really pathetic. So because I believe in the Bible, does that mean when I say to raise or fold I shouldn't be taken seriously? I guess time will tell. I still respect those who insult me and try to give me grief over my beliefs. I use this board primarily for poker even though most of my posts as of late have been about God(similiar to what felson said). Time will tell... [/ QUOTE ] 
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#104
10-08-2004, 06:00 AM
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Re: Am I Going to Burn in Hell?
Ok, so I tried to stay out of this but I've been reading a great deal of what I would call "bad theology" here and could not let it pass without giving my two cents.
Some background: I am a Christian, became one when I was a senior in high school. Was baptized into a non-denominational church but now subscribe (nearly completely, still unclear on where sin came from) to the reformed camp. the 5 solas Sola Scriptura: The Scripture Alone is the Standard - Your own ideas are gifts from God written into a man, thus they are flawed by sin just like everything else. Scripture alone is "God-breathed" (1 Timothy) Soli Deo Gloria: For the Glory of God Alone - We no longer live for ourself, but for God. This means we can do anything (as long as it isn't clearly against God's will) to God's glory. We can drink orange juice to God's Glory! Solo Christo: By Christ's Work Alone are We Saved - It is christ, and not I that does the work necessary to be saved. Sola Gratia: Salvation by Grace Alone - It is only by God's will that I am saved. Sola Fide: Justification by Faith Alone. I am justified (seen clean in God's eyes) by faith. My acceptance of God's sacrifice on my behalf for the sins of my life. These points are laid out throughout the Bible, most evident in Paul's epistles in the New Testament. What does this mean to be saved? Christ's work is sufficient, nothing we can, or will, do will ever save us from the judgement that we rightfully deserve. Our faith in Christ is what saves, us and this is provided by God's grace alone. It is not us that choose God, but God that chooses us. (Once again, Paul is very clear here) A few posts have mentioned that we are saved by Christ, stating that we should become a Christian and then resume our lives of sin, sex, and drugs. My response to this is a direct NO. Hebrews and 1 John both make it clear that "faith without works is dead." Does this mean that we have to do works in order to be saved? No, Paul makes it clear that we are saved by faith alone, but true saving faith is never alone. The man next to Jesus was saved by faith yes, but if given the chance he would have performed the good works that are the fruit of saving faith. If you think right now that if you "say" you're a Christian and your salvation is secure so you can go on to live however life you want, I strongly urge you to reconsider. Paul writes that we "work out our faith with fear and trembling" (Philipians) and in 1st Corinthians "...and He [Jesus] died for all such that they may no longer live for themselves but for Him who died for them" (emphasis mine). If you commit your life to Christ it is no longer yours! Is it hard? Of course. Is it easy? Yes, there are no extra strings, no requirements. God takes the worst and the best. I would bring up the example of Paul, but some might disagree with the Bible's authenticity (of which I would love to talk about through email), so take an example of Dr. Bernard Nathanson who was an adament champion of abortion. He performed over 60,000 abortions, including his own baby, twice. He formed the National Abortion Rigths Action League. Quite a character eh? In 1970 he saw an ultrasound of a baby, and to him it was a baby, no longer a fetus. This marked the beginning of God's work in his life. Eventually he completely changed his stance (but still wasn't Christian), arguing against the killing of innocents. He couldn't sleep at nights, completely wracked with guilt for what he had done. Finally in 1990 he discovered Christianity, which he had always rejected from before. In 1996 he was baptized. Was there redemption in his life? even for a person who led as bleak and evil life as that? YES! Did God use him as He does everyone else? Is the offer of salvation open to all? YES YES. Was it difficult? Is it difficult? Does the man now live for Jesus? He now works with clinics in finding alternatives to abortion for pregnant mothers. [ QUOTE ] Does any finite crime 'deserve' infinite punishment? Does God go by the golden rule? Can a morally perfect being dole out punishment so out of proportion to the crime? Can you get away with anything as long as you acknowlede Jesus as your savior before you die? Thoughts? [/ QUOTE ] A quick answer to these: crime (in this case sin) is never finite. You were born in sin, you live in sin, you die in sin. TULIP starts with: total depravity. Your entire life is filled with sin. With sin against a God that HATES sin what else could be just but eternal punishment, and this isn't just some "eternal separation from God" but a reality of God's wrath without His love. A reality of God's eternal judgement. As to the question of "can you get away with anything" the answer is never clear. I would say that if you're looking at it from a view of "getting away with stuff" then it is not possible to have the repentant heart (which means to turn away from sin and towards God) which is what leads to saving faith. So as long as you see it as an "escape hatch" of sorts, it won't be, but if you approach it honestly and clearly with a repentant heart then yes, God seperates our sin from us as far as the East is from the West. We are wiped "white as snow" (which ironically was also a phrase used for leprosy, that was something I was always amused about, but of course the original languages may have been different) Of course I am not the final judge of his salvation, and nor am I of yours. Only God has that right. Usually I would steer clear of these threads just because I feel like it's a poor attempt to evangelize and I hate arguing but I could not let the gospel be preached incomplete. Am I the ultimate judge of what is and is not? Of course not. Only the Bible, the whole Bible, and not parts of it. Any additional questions comments or things you'd like to say feel free to email me: mcsheu@gmail.NOSPAM.com I really don't check this section too much.
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#105
10-08-2004, 05:14 PM
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Re: Am I Going to Burn in Hell?
Good post. I was going to also state the faith and good works walk hand in hand. The Bible is full of examples of this. For instance,
Matthew 7:21 Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord,Lord,' shall enter into the kingdom of Heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. With that said, I do not doubt the power of God to grant salvation to anyone at any point in their lives. However, if declaration of faith is not backed by sincerity of heart God will certainly know it. I suppose it's possible to live the life of a murderous pedophile and receive salvation on your deathbed, but I wouldn't recommend it.
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