77 river decision

[keetz555]

[ QUOTE ]
what better hands are folding? AK? trip 4s?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah. Cute. No, hopefully a slightly better king will fold. Wouldn't you fold something like KT when you're faced with a bet and a raise?

[ QUOTE ]
why would you want to "define" your hand on such a rag flop in this small pot?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because I want to take it down. A weak king is a far cry from a strong hand here. Why would you want to slowplay top pair/weak kicker in a family pot?

[ QUOTE ]
if you're bet into on this board and you have a weak king and are so eager to define your hand, why is folding 77 so great for you? or why raise on the flop IF someone is going to pay off with 77 and win .5 sbs here when you can raise the turn and get 1BB and double your winnings?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because there are opponents to be heard from. I don't want overcallers. I want position on the turn.


[ QUOTE ]

1. now humor me and take my "calling station" line with the K: the river you're bet into with your King-weak kicker and river your 3rd King: you raise- he folds.

2. you contribute to the rake and win nothing from a bluff draw, weaker 4 or other pocket pair.

3. OR you raise and are 3-bet on the river, are you folding? i would doubt it with 3 of a kind, so you lose the max.



[/ QUOTE ]

1. Well, he DIDN'T fold, so I don't see your point. You will get a lot of calls from weaker hands here. Pocket pairs, two pairs etcetera.

2. If I raise and he folds, so be it. In that case, I win the same amount whether I raise or call. And I NEVER think about the rake when I raise. You shouldn't either.

3. Probably not. And that's one of the reasons for raising on the flop. Again, you define your hand. Possible scenario: Flop: he bets, you raise, only he calls. Turn: he checks, you bet, he calls. River: he bets, you call. In this case, you don't raise, because there's a good chance he has a better king.

Conclusion: raise the flop.

[ QUOTE ]
BTW, LOVE this comment. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] i am then a self-proclaimed calling station and love it [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay. I'm tight-aggressive and I love it. To each his own.

[@bsolute_luck]

*sigh* here we go and for all purposes you're line isn't wrong and i have not said so in any post, but am trying to say that if MP has a K, he played his hand fine. this is fine to have a long post as it IS on topic to discuss pocket pairs and how play such hands as this.

so i'll simply answer your posting and end my contribution to this thread as we seem to be getting nowhere.

[ QUOTE ]
Wouldn't you fold something like KT when you're faced with a bet and a raise?

[/ QUOTE ] no. unraised preflop? hell no. i'm pretty much 3-betting this from CO/Button almost all the time. you think i'm scared of trips at this point? i've got better position and strong chances to have the best hand at this point.

[ QUOTE ]
Because I want to take it down. A weak king is a far cry from a strong hand here. Why would you want to slowplay top pair/weak kicker in a family pot?

[/ QUOTE ] because i don't care about giving someone a cheap turn card when they're hoping for their 2 outer or runner-runner. there are basically no hands that should be calling the first bet in this hand given the size of the pot. give me a bigger pot, and i am definitely raising to win it right there.

[ QUOTE ]
Because there are opponents to be heard from. I don't want overcallers. I want position on the turn

[/ QUOTE ]

i addressed this above: size of pot, super rag flop, and we're talking 2 people not 3-5 behind us. really, i think 1 of our main differences between your uber-aggressive and my uber-passive: you care about winning this tiny pot. i don't. if i lose to a 2/3-outer or runner-runner: it really doesn't bother me. it bothers you.

[ QUOTE ]
1. Well, he DIDN'T fold, so I don't see your point. You will get a lot of calls from weaker hands here. Pocket pairs, two pairs etcetera.

[/ QUOTE ] my point is easy to see when you open your eyes: he DIDN'T fold because villain DIDN'T raise like i suggested (at least as far of the hand i can see). and i DIDN'T say bluffing this river with a busted draw will ALWAYS work (i hope i used enough caps for you). if you raise that flop, i'm folding against such an easy-read ABC player. same thing on the river: no way i'm paying you off. if i'm hero and i wanted to pay you off, i'll check/call at best: you know why? no worse hand is calling (sans read) and no better hand is folding.

[ QUOTE ]
2. If I raise and he folds, so be it. In that case, I win the same amount whether I raise or call. And I NEVER think about the rake when I raise. You shouldn't either.

[/ QUOTE ]
this is just plain stupid, but i guess at micro-limit, it shouldn't be expected. let me translate what you just said: "I don't care i just pissed away my earnings just to ram my rivered trips simply because i did it." i believe i've already stated a case for not raising this river. if you care to take the time to read it, you'll see why this is unwise, maybe not today at these levels, but as you move up. maybe i didn't speak slow enough, so i'll try again: "worse hands typically won't pay you off, but you risk getting 3-bet by a better hand and you'll pay them off"- so not only will you contribute winnings to pokersites, but you'll waste more of your winnings when it was unnecessary.

[ QUOTE ]

3. Probably not. And that's one of the reasons for raising on the flop. Again, you define your hand. Possible scenario: Flop: he bets, you raise, only he calls. Turn: he checks, you bet, he calls. River: he bets, you call. In this case, you don't raise, because there's a good chance he has a better king.

[/ QUOTE ] why on earth would the action EVER go like that? you honestly think if i have a K and since you so "defined your hand having a K", that i'm (as hero) going to donkbet that river? i'm check/raising you because i know you're so aggressive you'll bet this river when checked to and pay my better kicker off.

Conclusion: you can play this hand aggressively, but you'll lose weaker hands on the flop or get c/r by stronger hands on the river. you seem to like winning small pots. i like winning big ones and i like people like you who let me out cheap and let me win big. so thank you from a weak/passive fish.