Maybe I need some help

homebrewer · #1 10-12-2005, 01:59 PM

hi Kiemo,
Your experiences are very similar to mine. Not long ago I was "crushing" .5/1 full-ring and 6-max (about 30k hands too). I then made my 2nd foray into 1/2 6-max (the 1st was profitable but I found several leaks that I had to work on). My confidence was high and I was *running well*. I figured my 2nd try would be even more profitable - assuming I had improved my play.

I suffered a pretty good downswing almost immediately. I looked real hard at my hands and found several that I played poorly. However, I also found that I *seemed* to be running bad too. One of the things that affected me psychologically, but not really my play (at least I don't think so) was losing more in terms of actual dollars. The absolute dollar amount that I had lost was psychologically painful. Turns out that in terms of the actual number of BBs, my downswing at 1/2 was similar to other downswings that I've gone through in .50/1.

In similar threads, others have advocated "hanging in there" until things turn around. That's what I did and I ended up having a big turn around.

You seem to be receptive to the constructive criticisms offered by other 2+2ers. Others have suggested that your style is not suited to 1/2. Perhaps, they are right. But, you should make your own decision based upon your ability to weather the storm. Either way, work to implement the things suggested in this thread - especially about the range of hands that you play. You'll be better for it.

bozlax · #2 10-12-2005, 02:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Others have suggested that your style is not suited to 1/2. Perhaps, they are right.

[/ QUOTE ]

To clarify, what we're suggesting is that Kiemo's style isn't suited to the micro-limit games. And, we ARE right [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img].

The problem is multi-fold, but it boils down to this: the players in the micros are too loose to let you make money consistently stealing blinds, and they're too passive to build big pots when it's big hand vs. big hand. So your monsters are going to win small-to-mid sized pots, and you're not going to be picking up anything to pad that. Subtract from that the times that you're raising preflop and folding when the flop doesn't hit you in the face, and the blinds that you're just giving away, and you're losing money, hard.

kiemo · #3 10-12-2005, 04:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]

The problem is multi-fold, but it boils down to this: the players in the micros are too loose to let you make money consistently stealing blinds, and they're too passive to build big pots when it's big hand vs. big hand. So your monsters are going to win small-to-mid sized pots, and you're not going to be picking up anything to pad that. Subtract from that the times that you're raising preflop and folding when the flop doesn't hit you in the face, and the blinds that you're just giving away, and you're losing money, hard.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just quoting this for emphasis. Good nutshell explanation of what I think I am experiencing right now.

milesdyson · #4 10-12-2005, 04:21 PM

need i say raise preflop? and bet the river.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 8 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Hero calls, 1 fold, MP1 raises, 5 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (5.50 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, Hero raises, MP1 3-bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls.

River: (7.75 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks.

Final Pot: 7.75 BB

milesdyson · #5 10-12-2005, 04:22 PM

i'm on my lunch break, and i decided to get through the whole 300 hands. why aren't you limping this?

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 9 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 calls, 2 folds, CO calls, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, BB folds, MP1 calls, CO folds, Button folds.

Turn: (3.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, MP1 calls.

River: (5.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, MP1 raises, SB calls.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB

..........and why did you check the flop here?

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 7 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds, CO calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, BB calls, CO calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, CO checks, Hero checks.

kiemo · #6 10-12-2005, 05:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i'm on my lunch break, and i decided to get through the whole 300 hands. why aren't you limping this?

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 9 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 calls, 2 folds, CO calls, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, BB folds, MP1 calls, CO folds, Button folds.

Turn: (3.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, MP1 calls.

River: (5.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, MP1 raises, SB calls.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB

..........and why did you check the flop here?

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 7 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds, CO calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, BB calls, CO calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, CO checks, Hero checks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hand 1. I almost never play medium or small pocket pairs for EP at 1/2. I identified this in one of earlier posts as a potential spot to get more hands in. To me though there just isnt much value in playing for sets as I dont make enough money back when I hit to justify calling and possibly having to invest another SB on the way back.

Hand 2. I tend to check/fold completely missed flops. The ace and two suited on the board typically means I am way behind an ace who isnt folding and a spade draw isnt going away either. I dont see what a raise here accomplishes.

SomethingClever · #7 10-12-2005, 05:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2. I tend to check/fold completely missed flops. The ace and two suited on the board typically means I am way behind an ace who isnt folding and a spade draw isnt going away either. I dont see what a raise here accomplishes.

[/ QUOTE ]

omfg. you must bet the flop. if one of them folds, bet the turn, fold to a c/r. or if he calls the turn, take a free showdown.

if they both call, you can usually check the turn and fold the river.

BUT YOU MUST BET THE FLOP! Why do you think one of them has an ace? They think YOU have the ace, man!

milesdyson · #8 10-12-2005, 05:19 PM

your explanations for both hands are weak. you just don't play TT for a raise because you had losing results in early position over 30k hands? what is that, like 30 times in EP?

and in hand 2, wow, you are really scared. who's to say they don't have JT/K4/22/5Q/etc? assuming two opponents either have an ace or the four flush is really sad. contradictory to others, i strongly suggest NOT playing 6-max. you need to change your game, and do it at the full ring game first. ADMIT that you're not playing correctly, and stop trying to defend yourself. limping TT in UTG "because you don't make enough when you hit" is wrong.

kiemo · #9 10-12-2005, 04:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
need i say raise preflop? and bet the river.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 8 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Hero calls, 1 fold, MP1 raises, 5 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (5.50 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, Hero raises, MP1 3-bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls.

River: (7.75 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks.

Final Pot: 7.75 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

MP1 was a huge maniac (I think his raising K7o preflop on this hand proves that) but he was a huge maniac who was winning alot. Tilting the night away I honestly believed he was going to show the higher flush.

Also I almost never raise TT from EP. I used to raise with it always but discovered over 30k hands it was a losing play. Small sample size probably but it was enough to convince me to play it as a meduim pair early on.

SomethingClever · #10 10-12-2005, 05:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Also I almost never raise TT from EP. I used to raise with it always but discovered over 30k hands it was a losing play. Small sample size probably but it was enough to convince me to play it as a meduim pair early on.

[/ QUOTE ]

Stop it... you're hurting my brain. You have major leaks. Please listen to what people are telling you.