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#1
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Made bad laydown, thoughts?
Hero is in BB with K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4 players limp, Hero raises in BB, limpers call.
Flop comes K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Hero leads out, gets two callers, villian raises, 1 player folds, Hero calls, 1 other player calls. Turn is the 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Hero checks to Villian who also checks. River is the 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Board reads K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Hero checks, 1 player all-in, villian bets, back to Hero. There are 6-7 bb in the pot. Hero folded, thinking villian was not bluffing and would not value bet anything hero could beat. Thoughts, comments? -J |
#2
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Re: Made bad laydown, thoughts?
3bet the flop, bet the turn
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#3
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Re: Made bad laydown, thoughts?
[ QUOTE ]
3bet the flop, bet the turn [/ QUOTE ] Normally I would almost always play the hand the way you suggest here, however, for some reason I decided to play it more passively, as a sort of defensive deception type of play. -J |
#4
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Re: Made bad laydown, thoughts?
well....the pre-flop play wasn't terrible.
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#5
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Re: Made bad laydown, thoughts?
I'm as much of a fan of a turn check raise as anyone, but on a mega draw board like this you just can't check and let a free card come off.
I'm also almost not folding top two pair for a single bet on the river in a decent sized pot when I haven't shown any strength postflop. |
#6
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Re: Made bad laydown, thoughts?
[ QUOTE ]
3bet the flop, bet the turn [/ QUOTE ] |
#7
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Re: Made bad laydown, thoughts?
I'd fold the river in a pot of 6bb-7bb. Though I wouldn't because I would 3bet the flop and lead a non scare turn.
If he calls there and something comes in on the river, then it's usually pretty ugly, and I usually determine what to do by the preflop and flop action and the player. If the guy is a nit or passive I bet the river and fold to a raise, but if he is super-lag you can't do that because they can AND DO bluff-raise the river, so I would check-call most (but not all) of the time. |
#8
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Re: Made bad laydown, thoughts?
Really bad lay down. You just called his flop raise and then checked the turn and river. IMO he will value bet a lot of hands you beat.
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#9
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Re: Made bad laydown, thoughts?
...I guess I was sort of thinking that with everyone limping before the flop, it wasnt inconceivable for someone to hold 9T or AT, and with the flush draw there, I will the lose the pot roughly 1/2 the time to a straight or flush when I dont fill up, so that's why I kind of backed off on the flop. I am almost certaintly should have bet the turn, but I chose to give a free card because I felt the villian's action on the turn would give me a more definitive idea of what he held. Since he checked, I had to put him on some kind of draw (probably a flush?), and since they both got there on the river (str8 and flush) and since the pot wasnt huge, I decided to lay down.
It was one of those situations where I tried to play defensive instead of offensive and it totally backfired. Just calling his raise on the flop led me to check the turn, which led to a free card which led to me getting bluffed out on the river because I slickly had decided via my defensive play that my opponent was on the flush draw. In hindsite (which is always 20/20) I should have three bet the flop, led out on the turn, and possibly bet the river and folded to a raise or possibly check call against a loose aggressive player. But this guy wasnt a LA, he was tight and timid, another reason I decided to lay down. But hindsite is always 20/20 -J |
#10
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Re: Made bad laydown, thoughts?
[ QUOTE ]
...I guess I was sort of thinking that with everyone limping before the flop, it wasnt inconceivable for someone to hold 9T or AT, and with the flush draw there, I will the lose the pot roughly 1/2 the time to a straight or flush when I dont fill up, so that's why I kind of backed off on the flop. I am almost certaintly should have bet the turn, but I chose to give a free card because I felt the villian's action on the turn would give me a more definitive idea of what he held. Since he checked, I had to put him on some kind of draw (probably a flush?), and since they both got there on the river (str8 and flush) and since the pot wasnt huge, I decided to lay down. It was one of those situations where I tried to play defensive instead of offensive and it totally backfired. Just calling his raise on the flop led me to check the turn, which led to a free card which led to me getting bluffed out on the river because I slickly had decided via my defensive play that my opponent was on the flush draw. In hindsite (which is always 20/20) I should have three bet the flop, led out on the turn, and check called the river. But hindsite is always 20/20 -J [/ QUOTE ] Check/calling the river is a bad line against anyone but lags. edit: I type like crap |
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