TT against an atypical 10/20er

[PassiveCaller]

It's quite possible the cap will make the player do something stupid like check the turn and/or if he still bets I think it's a much easier fold as mentioned.

[Danenania]

I'm definitely not folding. Sure SB's PFR is only 9, but this is a blind steal situation. Also button's previous antics could easily be throwing SB off balance. I see 29/9 type players start changing their game in response to the presence of a maniac all the time. How is your own table image?

Also I'm not sure I agree that capping the flop gets you anywhere since I'm still uncomfortable folding on the turn even if he leads out after I capped the flop.

[Danenania]

You people advocating fold, would you also fold if the turn and river were running treys? Because the K changes nothing here.

[RaymondKHessel]

[ QUOTE ]
You people advocating fold, would you also fold if the turn and river were running treys? Because the K changes nothing here.

[/ QUOTE ]

The king actually changes alot here. It takes away the possibility that villian was getting tricky with overcards. It's also not as great a blind stealing threat from the SB's view, because the button cold called.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You people advocating fold, would you also fold if the turn and river were running treys? Because the K changes nothing here.

[/ QUOTE ]

The king actually changes alot here. It takes away the possibility that villian was getting tricky with overcards. It's also not as great a blind stealing threat from the SB's view, because the button cold called.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, what he said.

also, nice name....is that a basement apartment? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Danenania]

If he was getting tricky with overcards then he could have been getting tricky with 77-99 or who knows what else. So you still have to call down. Either you give him credit for JJ-AA on the flop or you don't. That's what it boils down to.

[RaymondKHessel]

[ QUOTE ]
If he was getting tricky with overcards then he could have been getting tricky with 77-99 or who knows what else. So you still have to call down. Either you give him credit for JJ-AA on the flop or you don't. That's what it boils down to.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, but that K takes away several of the hands he "could" have been getting tricky with. So now instead of hoping its 77-99, AK, AQ, KQ, KJ, you have to hope its exactly 77-99 or AQ. Lets also not forget, there are other people in this hand as well.

I would have folded the turn even if a trey had fallen. I only call the flop because I have odds to hit my set.

[Michael Davis]

Don't fold flopped overpairs except sometimes when an ace hits. Usually when an opponent has slowed down and then comes firing into you when the ace drops.

-Michael

[Magikist]

I'm a bit surprised at some of the opinions offered in this thread.

As the hand was played, calling down is just about the worst option available. The reasons for this can be readily found daily in discussions in the small stakes forum.

Raising is a better option, but not by much. The button's likely cold call will bloat the pot even more so that our fold equity approaches zero. Furthermore, if the SB 3-bets and the BB calls, a highly possible scenario, you're now tied to the pot for one more to see if you spike the river (and you may be drawing dead as it is).

The read given for the SB is moderate and nondescript. 77-99 is not 3-betting here, it's just not relevant. It's AA-TT, AK, and maybe AQs. From the flop action, the only hand SB could possibly hold that you beat is AK. When the turn brings a king, it's over. If for some reason SB is randomingly being an idiot, you still have to contend with the BB, who's range of hands definitely include a king. Finally, there's the button who seems intent on drawing. Over half the deck is a bad card for you.

As played, this is an easy turn fold.

One poster advocated capping the flop. This is an expensive way "just to be sure." The fact of the matter is, with his range of hands, the SB is going to lead the turn almost regardless. There's is very little information to gain relative to the drawbacks of this play. The value of initiative is more important heads up, but 4-way you're just spewing chips. The button's not going anywhere for 2 more SB, so there's no free showdown option. By capping you're also charging yourself extra to draw and making a bigger pot when you're frequently behind and drawing slim. Better to keep the action in front of you and see how the turn developes. If the turn bricks you raise. This is the most cost effective way of charging draws, gaining information, eliminating the button, and earning a free showdown.

Finally, the big mistake in this hand occurred preflop. Capping before the flop will make playing post flop much easier, in my opinion.