Basic ITH preflop question

[RustedCorpse]

Further questions....


What do you do in this exact same situation with

9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (suits are irrelvant, I just like the icons.)

[ErrantNight]

you need to consider the times you win unimproved vs. unimproved overcards, and the times you can push your opponent off of overcards before the river (decreasing his chances of pairing up)

[unimproved]

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Because if I do not flop a monster the hand costs me 1SB.

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So the only way you're continuing after the flop is if you flop a set? This decreases the number of times that you will win the pot even further because with this thinking you will be folding the best hand on the flop many times when you don't flop a set and your opponent also does not hit his AK-KQ hands.

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True, this was posted in response to the AA-KK only hypothetical opponent situation. If my opponent raises unpaired hands from EP, as most do, my line differs significantly depending on flop texture.

[ErrantNight]

honestly... it's totally dependent on my opponent. against party fish that raise too much i'm 3-betting all of these. against party fish that raise too little i'm sometimes 3-betting, sometimes calling.

[unimproved]

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Further questions....


What do you do in this exact same situation with

9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (suits are irrelvant, I just like the icons.)

[/ QUOTE ]

This makes it a far more opponent-dependant question, I think. I'm three-betting JJ for value against a lot of opponents, TT against less. I call and evaluate the flop in most situations with 99.

[adsman]

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Further questions....


What do you do in this exact same situation with

9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (suits are irrelvant, I just like the icons.)

[/ QUOTE ]

This makes it a far more opponent-dependant question, I think. I'm three-betting JJ for value against a lot of opponents, TT against less. I call and evaluate the flop in most situations with 99.

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It is also a completely opponent dependent question with 55. If you are only putting your opponent on huge poket pairs then there is no difference between these hands and 55.

[unimproved]

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Further questions....


What do you do in this exact same situation with

9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (suits are irrelvant, I just like the icons.)

[/ QUOTE ]

This makes it a far more opponent-dependant question, I think. I'm three-betting JJ for value against a lot of opponents, TT against less. I call and evaluate the flop in most situations with 99.

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It is also a completely opponent dependent question with 55. If you are only putting your opponent on huge poket pairs then there is no difference between these hands and 55.

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Yes, that's true and I didn't dispute it. The vast majority of opponents I'm not putting on only huge pocket pairs, and so JJ, TT, and 99 are significantly different from 55 in terms of equity against Villain's range.

[sfer]

Call. Not close.

[crunchy1]

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Further questions....
What do you do in this exact same situation with

9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (suits are irrelvant, I just like the icons.)

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As others have said - pretty "opponent dependent". Against any player other than the rocks who are only raising AA-QQ I think it's a 3-bet. I think the key here is the number of times that you will win UI with these 3 hands versus the number of times you'll win UI with 55. It's also worth noting the increased number of favorable flops where you're pair is a middle or over pair with JJ-99 compared to how often that will happen with 55.

There will be much more opportunity to "pick-up" the pot with JJ-99 than with 55. (I think this also increases because these hands are worth 3-betting most times PF - which put's your opponent on the defensive from the outset)

[unimproved]

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Call. Not close.

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Hi sfer,

This is what my gut says. Could you elaborate?