flopped quads -- raise the turn or wait?

Matt R. · #1 05-25-2005, 10:41 PM

Any and all comments welcome, but I'm primarily wondering if I should raise the turn here or if it's best to wait in this case.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (7 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, Hero calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB bets, BB calls, UTG folds, Hero calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, BB folds, Hero calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.

River: (9.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, MP2 calls, CO calls, SB 3-bets, Hero caps, MP2 calls, CO calls, SB calls.

Final Pot: 25.50 BB

Catt · #2 05-25-2005, 10:45 PM

Raise the flop. Nobody will credit you with quads; very few will credit you with trips; flush draws, any deuce, any PP, and some overcards (particularly holding a big [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]) will come along.

brettbrettr · #3 05-25-2005, 10:46 PM

I suck with quads, I'll leave it to others.

At first glance however, your line makes a hell of a lot of sense. I *might* raise the turn in the hopes that the one card flushes call, but, really, I don't have a problem with this at all.

toss · #4 05-25-2005, 10:58 PM

Hero left a lot of bets on the table IMO. Any flush draw and other weak draws will call 2 bets on the flop. Turn completed flush draw so he can goto war on the turn with them.

Matt R. · #5 05-25-2005, 11:11 PM

If someone nailed their flush on the turn, couldn't I expect one of the players behind to raise for me? I also waited on the flop to see if those behind me would come along and let their hand improve on the turn (772 board is pretty weak looking). Could be flawed thinking, but that was my reasoning at the time. Thanks for the input.

Catt · #6 05-26-2005, 12:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
. . . (772 board is pretty weak looking) . . .

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, but it is weak-looking to everybody. Raising this flop will be interpreted as you making a move with big overcards, a smallish PP, or maybe a flush draw (if your opponents are observant and know you raise strong draws). Your raising this flop is a lot less intimidating than if you raised an 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] flop and by raising it early when many will call, you fatten up the pot which makes it a heckuva lot easier for them to call down or go nuts when they hit. Calling the flop and raising the turn when a blank falls screams monster to most at Party at this level, I think. Raising this turn in particular might scare everybody off because it looks like you might've hit a flush -- you avoid this to some degree when you push a bit on the flop. Ideally, SB 3-bets and you can smoothcall and raise again on the turn.

On a board like this, anyone without two hearts or a decent pocket pair is probably not going to call a turn bet (let alone a raise) in a smallish pot, especially when a third [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] falls on the turn, as it will somwhere around 1/4 times (depending on how many hearts are in ithers' hands). I am frankly very surprised that you had two guys sticking around not only to the river, but through the river getting capped. WTF did they have?

Matt R. · #7 05-26-2005, 01:06 AM

Not sure if I'm mad that MP2 didn't raise the turn (or flop) or not. It kept the donk in the CO in who called the cap on the river.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (7 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, Hero calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB bets, BB calls, UTG folds, Hero calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, BB folds, Hero calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.

River: (9.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, MP2 calls, CO calls, SB 3-bets, Hero caps, MP2 calls, CO calls, SB calls.

Final Pot: 25.50 BB

Results in white below: 
SB has 9s 9d (full house, nines full of sevens).
Hero has 7c 7s (four of a kind, sevens).
MP2 has 2s 2d (full house, twos full of sevens).
CO has Ts Jd (two pair, jacks and sevens).
Outcome: Hero wins 25.50 BB.

DMBFan23 · #8 05-25-2005, 11:19 PM

not trying to poop on your post, but it probably doesnt matter too much how you play your flopped quads.

aK13 · #9 05-25-2005, 11:24 PM

You must hate money if you couldn't find the right most button anywhere before the river.

Matt R. · #10 05-25-2005, 11:33 PM

How is this so clear-cut? I raise the turn, MP2 and CO fold, SB and BB call -- that's 4 BB's in on the turn. I call the turn like I did, MP2 and CO call as well -- 4 BB's on the turn as well and it gives them another card to catch a hand they like. Sure I'd raise if there weren't 2 flop callers yet to act after me. In a pot with this many players with someone else betting FOR me, I like keeping everyone around as long as possible. I concede that MAYBE raising the turn is better, but I don't think it's nearly as clear a decision as you make it out to be.

Not to mention the possibility that someone behind me made their flush and will get into a raising war with the SB.