Flopping a strong draw with KTs

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
Show them your passive side. Check and call.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why? Doesn't make sense to me to check/call both the flop and turn...

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Show them your passive side. Check and call.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why? Doesn't make sense to me to check/call both the flop and turn...

[/ QUOTE ]

It's awfully rare that you're folding a better hand on this board if TAG is even remotely decent. You usually have 12 outs at best, though your full range is somewhere between 8 and 15 outs. I'd say your weighted average is around 11 outs, but your FE on this flop is almost nil.

Rob

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Show them your passive side. Check and call.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why? Doesn't make sense to me to check/call both the flop and turn...

[/ QUOTE ]

It's awfully rare that you're folding a better hand on this board if TAG is even remotely decent. You usually have 12 outs at best, though your full range is somewhere between 8 and 15 outs. I'd say your weighted average is around 11 outs, but your FE on this flop is almost nil.

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]
You don't think we'll be able to fold hands like AK/AQ by following up on the turn?

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Show them your passive side. Check and call.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why? Doesn't make sense to me to check/call both the flop and turn...

[/ QUOTE ]

It's awfully rare that you're folding a better hand on this board if TAG is even remotely decent. You usually have 12 outs at best, though your full range is somewhere between 8 and 15 outs. I'd say your weighted average is around 11 outs, but your FE on this flop is almost nil.

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]
You don't think we'll be able to fold hands like AK/AQ by following up on the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

Only if the TAG is a bad player.

[SmileyEH]

check/raise if the button calls, check/call if the button folds.

-SmileyEH

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
check/raise if the button calls, check/call if the button folds.

-SmileyEH

[/ QUOTE ]

You're overestimating how much value a checkraise has here when your pair outs are dominated and you're underestimating how often you'll get 3-bet and force a only slightly-too-loose Button out.

Rob

What Entity is missing here is that the pot is getting pretty big and eliminating either player is not neccessarily bad. Check/raise and lead. If it's heads up on the river throw a bet out there. If it's three way on the turn, just check and call. If you get three bet, call down unless you improve to 2+pair or better or the turn gets checked through if you hit your king.

Facing the too loose button with 2 cold will fold A10, KJ, KQ, and possibly 710 or 7K.

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
What Entity is missing here is that the pot is getting pretty big and eliminating either player is not neccessarily bad. Check/raise and lead. If it's heads up on the river throw a bet out there. If it's three way on the turn, just check and call. If you get three bet, call down unless you improve to 2+pair or better or the turn gets checked through if you hit your king.

Facing the too loose button with 2 cold will fold A10, KJ, KQ, and possibly 710 or 7K.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're way off here.

1) Checkraising will NOT force Button to call two cold. He will call one bet at a time unless you get 3-bet, at which point he may fold, but then your hopes of winning UI are completely negated, as you're generally facing an overpair/set/bigger flush draw.

This is not a situation to be attempting to clean up outs when you don't know what outs are clean and are what not, in a shorthanded pot where you aren't likely to fold either player's range of hands.

Rob

[B Dids]

Real basic strat for me on this hand. "how can I get the most money in the pot". All of my value is in my flush draw, I'm not in love with my K.

Depending on the players, I might c/r, but not if I think anybody is folding. I think just calling here may be ok.

[Jake (The Snake)]

I'm with Rob on the c/c here.

Don't forget about implied odds. It would be pretty sweet if we hit the flush and we can check bet call raise call call the turn.