What do you think about raising this turn?

QTip · #1 10-04-2005, 10:55 AM

MP is loose and fairly aggressive

UTG is semi-loose and fairly aggressive

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG raises, MP calls, 2 folds, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, UTG calls, MP calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, MP calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP bets, Hero ?

Derek in NYC · #2 10-04-2005, 11:02 AM

I did this very move yesterday night. Unless you're unlucky and villain flopped a set, you wont get re-raised. The move is nice because while raising the turn won't win you the pot if you're behind, it will: (a) get you to showdown for the same price as check-calling, and (b) give you the opportunity for a value bet/raise if you draw out.

krishanleong · #3 10-04-2005, 11:02 AM

I don't like it much.

Why did you relinquish the lead on the flop?

Krishan - 86

QTip · #4 10-04-2005, 11:13 AM

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Why did you relinquish the lead on the flop?

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ok..

Why am I betting this flop? And if you do bet the flop, are you betting a turn blank if they both call?

Great day of learning for me here today....thanks.

krishanleong · #5 10-04-2005, 11:20 AM

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ok..

Why am I betting this flop? And if you do bet the flop, are you betting a turn blank if they both call?

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You are betting this flop for value. If they both call, it depends on read as to whether I bet or check but I most likely check. If I picked up a gutshot like you did in this hand, I definitely call. Otherwise I probably call.

Anything in this can change based on reads.

Krishan - 88

#6 10-04-2005, 11:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why did you relinquish the lead on the flop?

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Why am I betting this flop? And if you do bet the flop, are you betting a turn blank if they both call?

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I bet this flop because:
1) I'm calling a bet anyway, so I might as well lead it.
2) Calling one bet doesn't tell me much, but having them raise me on the flop indicates I can easily check/fold the turn.
3) Betting might put me HU, in which case leading the turn may win the pot.
4) It helps keep my flop bets unreadable. Unless you're check/raising the flop regularly, a check here just shows you missed.

QTip · #7 10-04-2005, 11:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why did you relinquish the lead on the flop?

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Why am I betting this flop? And if you do bet the flop, are you betting a turn blank if they both call?

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I bet this flop because:
1) I'm calling a bet anyway, so I might as well lead it.
2) Calling one bet doesn't tell me much, but having them raise me on the flop indicates I can easily check/fold the turn.
3) Betting might put me HU, in which case leading the turn may win the pot.
4) It helps keep my flop bets unreadable. Unless you're check/raising the flop regularly, a check here just shows you missed.

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Perfect. Thanks.

SomethingClever · #8 10-04-2005, 11:50 AM

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Why am I betting this flop?

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On a flop like that, there's a good chance you have the best hand, for one.

Also, I'd love to fold at least one of my opponents and keep the initiative.

If they both call my flop bet, I usually will not lead the turn. But I may call a bet, depends on what falls.

Derek in NYC · #9 10-04-2005, 11:18 AM

If you raise the flop, do you bet the turn and check behind on the river UI? I think you get c/red a reasonable number of times on the turn when you do that. OTOH, maybe I raise this flop also--it's certainly not out of line. Recently, I've taken to a lot more "delayed aggression" tactics, since flop raises are way more suspect. Which is why I liked your HU play in the other thread a lot against a TAG.

krishanleong · #10 10-04-2005, 11:23 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If you raise the flop, do you bet the turn and check behind on the river UI? I think you get c/red a reasonable number of times on the turn when you do that. OTOH, maybe I raise this flop also--it's certainly not out of line. Recently, I've taken to a lot more "delayed aggression" tactics, since flop raises are way more suspect. Which is why I liked your HU play in the other thread a lot against a TAG.

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I'm advocating a bet on the flop. I'm not sure what you are asking.

Krishan