50-100 Vs Solid Pro

[SA125]

[ QUOTE ]
Flop : Q 9 4

I check-raise he calls, my plan at this point is to follow through the turn and check-fold most likely if I miss the river. Maybe follow through...thats what I usually do, but it didnt seem right against this guy.

Turn : K

I bet he calls

River 2

I check, planning to put in as many raises as possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

He reads hands well and is aggressive, but hasn't raised yet. Now he's wondering why a duck slowed you down from pounding a board that was likely to have hit or not hurt him.

I think it's 50-50 whether he'd check behind or bet, or call or fold. I'd bet.

[Renaud Desferet]

Not a place to semibluff.
Check call, check call, check fold.
A semibluff is far too expensive, even against a not very tenacious opponent.
If you don't follow through on the river: he won't fold any hands on the turn and will raise you with a good bunch of hands. Note that TT and JJ are less likely holdings, which are typical hands he might just call on the turn.
If you do, he will fold a little, but these hands are far too few to make this a profit.
The only time check raising the flop is fine is if he is very tight on the flop, but I don't know any mid-high limit solid pro player tight on the flop, especially against a known good player. one pro used to be tight on the flop in my game, but he is not anymore.
Louie Landale once explained why being tight on the flop is wrong headsup, because it becomes too easy/cheap to steal for the opponent.

[Michael Jensen]

With a brick on the river, I would bet out on the river. I would not risk missing a bet, hoping the guy bets it for me. Furthermore, if he doesn't mind laying down a hand when he is beat, he more than likely will lay his hand down to a check-raise on the river. Also, if he has this tendancy, me might just check behind especially if he has a hand like AQ fearing he still may be beat. If he were to bet, you still have his bet, but you took too big of a risk of him checking behind on the river. If it is unlikely he will call a check-raise, I'd just bet it out.

BraveJayhawk

[Barry]

I'm not saying it doesn't happen a lot, it's just that my warning lights go off. In those situations my opponent is often either loaded or empty so betting serves little purpose.

OK, OK, I know I miss value bets here and there and maybe this is one of them too.

[Ulysses]

Renaud, you should post more.

[1800GAMBLER]

I guess i don't get it. Someone help me out.

Hands he doesn't have, AA KK QQ 99.

Hands he may or may not have, AK KQ AQ.

Hands that would play like this, JJ TT AT AJ.

Against,

AQ it's a sweet c/r if he pays off.

Against AK KQ - if he does have these hands the reason he has those is because he didn't want to lose the player on the turn and is probably now going to raise the river, so the c/r is bad.

Against, JJ TT he'll value bet (maybe?) but prob wont pay off but he will def call if you just bet.

AT AJ seems like they are folding if you bet and checking the river if you check, but hell, you may just induce a bluff.

So it seems like a bad idea, but if clark and eldiablo both say different i guess my analysis is wrong somewhere, help?

[TStoneMBD]

yah i agree with renaud. semibluffing at this level is an amateur play.

[Clarkmeister]

[ QUOTE ]
yah i agree with renaud. semibluffing at this level is an amateur play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Playing any headsup situation the same 100% is the amateur play. This flop-turn variation is perfectly acceptable from time to time.

[Steve Giufre]

[ QUOTE ]
Not a place to semibluff.
Check call, check call, check fold.
A semibluff is far too expensive, even against a not very tenacious opponent.
If you don't follow through on the river: he won't fold any hands on the turn and will raise you with a good bunch of hands. Note that TT and JJ are less likely holdings, which are typical hands he might just call on the turn.
If you do, he will fold a little, but these hands are far too few to make this a profit.
The only time check raising the flop is fine is if he is very tight on the flop, but I don't know any mid-high limit solid pro player tight on the flop, especially against a known good player. one pro used to be tight on the flop in my game, but he is not anymore.
Louie Landale once explained why being tight on the flop is wrong headsup, because it becomes too easy/cheap to steal for the opponent.

[/ QUOTE ]

The part Im not sure I can agree with is that he wont fold any hands on the turn if Hiatus doesnt follow through on the river. I think he probably gives up AK here a good majority of the time on the turn, and with the poster, he might even be rasing AJ preflop, which he is also very likely to dump. Also, I really think Hiatus would be spewing if he bet the river. If he bricks the turn the fun is over right there IMO. What hands will a solid pro call the turn with here and here not the river considering the board and the previous action? The call the turn (with a hand that has showdown value) and fold if they fire the last barrel on the river logic is a lot more useful in live play, but not in an aggreisve high limit internet games. Once these guys call the turn, they almost always put the last bet in and make you turn over your hand.

[esspo]

It really depends on what he thinks of you. If he thinks highly of you, he will interpret your river check as trying to induce a bluff. The only way he's betting a marginal hand for value is if he thinks you are a moron who overplays weak hands and then would pay off a river bet when you are obviously beat. In either case, he probably isn't betting any mid pkt. pair he decided to call you down with.