Bet/Fold River?

PSW · #1 11-15-2005, 03:12 AM

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

BB is 60/9/.39 after 75 hands.

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, 7 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (6.40 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, BB calls.

Turn: (4.70 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 folds, BB calls.

River: (6.70 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB raises, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 9.70 BB

I working on getting the Bet/fold into my arsenal. Was it correctly used here?

psw

ellipse_87 · #2 11-15-2005, 04:11 AM

Bet-fold last-to-act on the River is called for when you don't hate being raised. Here I don't hate being raised because a bluff check-raise and slow-played Ace account for less than 10% of this villain's possible holdings, and I can fold TPTK with very little consternation.

toss · #3 11-15-2005, 04:13 AM

Looks good. Villain's numbers indicate that he's rivered you with some wacky hand. Make sure you keep an eye on what he raises with though.

BoxLiquid · #4 11-15-2005, 04:41 AM

I'm still a trainee.. I don't understand why we fold this on the river to a raise?

Also... why not a check/call?

If anyone can explain I will greatly appreciate it.

olavfo · #5 11-15-2005, 04:42 AM

If you can't call a river checkraise, why not take a free showdown?

ellipse_87 · #6 11-15-2005, 04:49 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If you can't call a river checkraise, why not take a free showdown?

[/ QUOTE ]

Value. We have TPTK and it seems that the other guy likes to call a lot.

olavfo · #7 11-15-2005, 04:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you can't call a river checkraise, why not take a free showdown?

[/ QUOTE ]

Value. We have TPTK and it seems that the other guy likes to call a lot.

[/ QUOTE ]
I understand that, but you need to be very sure you are beaten to fold in this spot, otherwise you might be doing a terrible mistake. You need very good reads to bet-fold profitably here. Without such reads, I don't bet-fold, I bet-call or check behind.

I consider river bet-folding to be a somewhat dangerous practice.

BoxLiquid · #8 11-15-2005, 05:05 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I understand that, but you need to be very sure you are beaten to fold in this spot, otherwise you might be doing a terrible mistake. You need very good reads to bet-fold profitably here. Without such reads, I don't bet-fold, I bet-call or check behind.

I consider river bet-folding to be a somewhat dangerous practice.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's true. There were many times I've been c/r'ed on the river to end up winning. How did you guys determine knowing to fold?

toss · #9 11-15-2005, 05:09 AM

Villains stats after 75 hands suggest he only will checkraise here with strong hands. 75 hands, although small, is probably sufficient enough information to allow us to make such a fold. Thats why in my first post I noted that Hero should observe what villain will checkraise and bets with in case the Poker Tracker stats are misleading.

W. Deranged · #10 11-15-2005, 06:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If you can't call a river checkraise, why not take a free showdown?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a bad way of thinking that I hear a lot from opponents in live games as high as 20/40 and 30/60. The reason we bet is because there's value here. Not betting, in fact, is HORRIBLE poker. This kind of straightforward river value-betting is one of the single-most important factors in distinguishing solid-winning from break-even type players.